SageBrush
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
SageBrush wrote:30 kWh batteries were such a short lived story, I'm curious to see how Nissan handles warranty inventory and replacement.

Maybe they”ll use the new 40 kw battery. Is it physically possible?

Dimensions wise -- yes.
Technically -- I think so, with modification.

Likely ? Nissan has 5 year history* of telling Nissan owners to pound sound when it came to out of warranty battery replacement costs, and just recently they increased 24 kWh replacement costs by ~ 30%. Something extra-ordinary would have to change.

*excluding a 6 month period they relented on warranty replacement as part of a PR push before the 2018 LEAF
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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LTLFTcomposite
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Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:50 pm

Got a call the replacement pack/modules are in. Will get the installation scheduled next week.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

DaveinOlyWA
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:07 am

webeleafowners wrote:
SageBrush wrote:30 kWh batteries were such a short lived story, I'm curious to see how Nissan handles warranty inventory and replacement.

Maybe they”ll use the new 40 kw battery. Is it physically possible?


Just about anything is possible if you are willing to spend the money and Nissan is simply not going to do it. They have contingency plans in place to build warranty packs for both 24 and 30 kwh replacements.

Realize that Nissan is not like Tesla. They build multiple models on the exact same line as the LEAF so they jump from battery packs to gas tanks in the blink of an eye. Tesla's issue is simply they are not a refined automobile manufacturer yet. So they currently only build with minimal options to gain experience and efficiency.

Its a tough challenge to maintain proficiency with a very high number of new employees. Getting the basics down would take less than a month. Gaining the ability to recognize and fix problems without a major disruption takes time and not all workers will gain this tool...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Storksb
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:45 am

My wife's 2016 Leaf SV is showing one bar drop. Not sure when it occurred but I noticed it last week when I was testing Leafspy on it.

Leaf spy showed the following details

SOC 97.4%
kwh remaining 22.6
GIDs 291 79.7%

AHr 63.64
SOH 80.07%
Hx 74.95%


Car was leased in July 2016 and has 17600 miles


Area Northern Virginia

SageBrush
Posts: 2598
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:33 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:They have contingency plans in place to build warranty packs for both 24 and 30 kwh replacements.

Is this speculation on your part or do know specifics ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

ElectricEddy
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 313506
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:45 pm

Storksb wrote:My wife's 2016 Leaf SV is showing one bar drop. Not sure when it occurred but I noticed it last week when I was testing Leafspy on it.

Leaf spy showed the following details

SOC 97.4%
kwh remaining 22.6
GIDs 291 79.7%

AHr 63.64
SOH 80.07%
Hx 74.95%


Car was leased in July 2016 and has 17600 miles


Area Northern Virginia

80% SOH seems to be the average so far, looks like there will be warranty replacement in your future.
Hope you can endure the range loss till then .
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

dwl
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Leaf Number: 112097
Location: New Zealand

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:56 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Just about anything is possible if you are willing to spend the money and Nissan is simply not going to do it. They have contingency plans in place to build warranty packs for both 24 and 30 kwh replacements.

Why would Nissan revert to a technology that will require more replacements within the warranty period if they could make use of modules that are physically the same which if derated could mean a once only replacement?
2014 S - 6000 km Jan 2016; 45000 km May 2017 95% SoH; 68,000 km Mar 2018 90% SoH

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:21 am

For all I know the modules they are about to install as replacements in our car are the same as what's used in 2018s and they just derate them somehow. I doubt it will matter either way as I expect the 2018 cells don't hold up either, maybe be worse yet.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:08 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:For all I know the modules they are about to install as replacements in our car are the same as what's used in 2018s and they just derate them somehow. I doubt it will matter either way as I expect the 2018 cells don't hold up either, maybe be worse yet.


Would the use of a 40kwh pack also require a BMS swap as well? If so, wouldn't successive chademo charges tell you if that's the case?

If no BMS change is required, then wouldn't you end up with a higher capacity leaf (since there will be no lower voltage to software-limit the actual capacity)?

The thought of needing a new piece of firmware to artificially limit a bigger pack down to 30kwh makes me think this isn't likely. Would be nice if it was true though.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333
... awaiting firmware update

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4531
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:15 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:For all I know the modules they are about to install as replacements in our car are the same as what's used in 2018s and they just derate them somehow. I doubt it will matter either way as I expect the 2018 cells don't hold up either, maybe be worse yet.


Would the use of a 40kwh pack also require a BMS swap as well? If so, wouldn't successive chademo charges tell you if that's the case?

If no BMS change is required, then wouldn't you end up with a higher capacity leaf (since there will be no lower voltage to software-limit the actual capacity)?

The thought of needing a new piece of firmware to artificially limit a bigger pack down to 30kwh makes me think this isn't likely. Would be nice if it was true though.

IDK the answers to your questions but assumed the capacity could be limited with a software update. Pure speculation on my part is testing that update is why it has taken 10 weeks to get a replacement battery. Honestly I'm unsure what we're going to be left with when all this is done, but feel fairly certain it won't be anything better than when the car was new.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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