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Stanton
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Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:19 am

JTim wrote:
Counted 11 battery capacity bars this morning 3/22/17.

ODO 6,157
AHr=65.42
Hx=80.04
SOH=82%

Tim


So after ~18 months, it's almost like you have a "new" 24 kWHr battery pack??
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

JTim
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:56 am
Delivery Date: 16 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 1024

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:44 am

Stanton wrote:
JTim wrote:
Counted 11 battery capacity bars this morning 3/22/17.

ODO 6,157
AHr=65.42
Hx=80.04
SOH=82%

Tim


So after ~18 months, it's almost like you have a "new" 24 kWHr battery pack??


Took delivery 12/15/15, so 12/15/16 was 1 year-ish -- could be closer to 14 or 15 months?

Tim
JTim
Fort Worth, TX
Man. Date: 12/15
Delivered 12-16-2015
Glacier White, 2016 SV, 30 kwh

SD303
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:39 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2016
Leaf Number: 307262

Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:29 am

Hello all, so this week I noticed my battery changed in my 2016 SV. My capacity decreased as I only have 11/12 capacity bars. It takes longer to charge and range is diminished. I wanted to know if this was normal given I have 4k miles on it and live in a temperate climate. I started leasing the car beginning of Aug. 16. I live in San Diego. I routinely charge it to 80% daily with a normal discharge to 50%. I never charge it above this percentage range. I have about a 30 mile roundtrip commute in heavy traffic. Is this abnormal battery aging? Perhaps battery cell failure? Is because the cells have not "balanced out " due to my mid-range charging? I can't add a pic I charged to full to help "balance out" the cells. That was obviously not successful. I have my first scheduled maintenance coming up. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Image

cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:46 am

Ouch!

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Doesn't seem like these 30 kWh are holding up that well in high temps.

Mods: Can someone merge this post into viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606?

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

GerryAZ
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Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:52 am

I have not driven a 2016 with the larger battery, but my 2011 was over 1 year old before losing the first capacity bar (also over 12,000 miles). My 2015 was almost 2 years old with 30,000 miles when the first bar disappeared. Since you live in a cooler climate, your battery should last longer so I suggest you complain to Nissan. There have been several reports in other threads on the forum of premature drop in capacity on 2016s.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
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Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:01 am

If you really never, ever charge to 100%, then the first thing I'd try is a few 100% charges - just drive the car soon after it's finished charging. It's hard to believe that a lack of full equalization charging would cause a capacity bar to drop, but that's the easiest thing to try.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

EVDrive
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 pm
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Leaf Number: 776
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:00 am

Dang, sorry to hear about this. I would be at the dealer right away complaining up a storm. You should not have lost a capacity bar, I'd guess either the instrumentation is off (try some full charges as Leftie Biker recommended) or you have some cell issues. It took me 46,000 miles and 3 years to lose one capacity bar on my 2011 Leaf and I fully charged to 100% 2x a day most weekdays and I DC quick charged several times most weeks. I was hard on my battery.

I'm in the SF bay so you might have to worry more about fully charging and leaving it charged as it's hotter where you are, however, I never worried about fully charging my Leaf. I drove it the next morning or a few hours later after each 100% charge. I'm so glad I didn't baby my battery and just drove the car. Reading the forums, it seems that so many people who babied their batteries had premature degradation and all their overcaution was for not. When I get a 200 mile EV, I'll charge to 80% most of the time.

With these first generation EV's, I would recommend to everyone not to worry so much, drive the thing and upgrade later to a bigger battery EV with battery liquid cooling. I think it most important to not leave your car fully charged for days or frequently plug in to charge from 90 to 100% and to avoid fully discharging the battery.

Curious to hear the dealer explanation for this sadness. I wonder if they will reset the bars to 12 and tell you it's fine as that's what I read on this forum they did with the older Leafs when they lost bars too quickly.
- SF Bay Area
- 2011 Leaf traded in at 46,000 miles, 3 years, lost 1 bar
- Upgraded to 2014 Rav4EV with Quickchargepower.com CHAdeMO port, 53,000 miles
- Tesla Model 3 reserved

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:51 am

Its not normal. What is the build date? you picked it up in August? yeah, about the WORST time of year to buy an EV. Too late now but if buying in August, I would not consider a car that had a build date beyond July. I would actually petition for a car built in August to be honest with you.

I got mine in Nov. I cheated. I moved my lease date up because I knew that any S30 I got was less than a month off the factory floor. I am just under 9,000 miles now and my battery stats via LEAF Spy are the same as the day I got the car. I have about 70-80 QCs, have heated my pack over 122º F, etc.... IOW, I am trashing it to no avail, the pack has not faltered yet.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 11311 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1
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johnlocke
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
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Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:35 am

Charging the battery to 100% is not the problem here. First off, charging the battery to 100% actually only charges it to about 92% of full capacity. Nissan only allows the voltage in the cell to rise to 4.11v. A fully charged cell would register between 4.17and 4.20. I have over 25000 miles on my car and it gets a full charge every evening (over 400 L2 charges so far plus several dozen L3 charges). I live in San Diego east county. Summer temps here are similar to east L.A. or Las Vegas. I still have all 12 bars (although probably not for much longer) SOH is 85%.

Could you tell us your amp hour reading and SOH? If you don't have Leafspy PM me and I'll plug mine in to your car. Since we are both in San Diego it should be easy to arrange a meet. There are reports that the first bar doesn't drop until you hit an SOH of 80% That would be important for us to know since the 24KWH leafs drop the first bar at 85%. If Nissan is playing games here with the loss of bars ( and therefore with the warranty) we need to document it.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Battery Capacity Diminished 2016

Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:10 am

johnlocke wrote:Charging the battery to 100% is not the problem here. First off, charging the battery to 100% actually only charges it to about 92% of full capacity. Nissan only allows the voltage in the cell to rise to 4.11v. A fully charged cell would register between 4.17and 4.20. I have over 25000 miles on my car and it gets a full charge every evening (over 400 L2 charges so far plus several dozen L3 charges). I live in San Diego east county. Summer temps here are similar to east L.A. or Las Vegas. I still have all 12 bars (although probably not for much longer) SOH is 85%.

Could you tell us your amp hour reading and SOH? If you don't have Leafspy PM me and I'll plug mine in to your car. Since we are both in San Diego it should be easy to arrange a meet. There are reports that the first bar doesn't drop until you hit an SOH of 80% That would be important for us to know since the 24KWH leafs drop the first bar at 85%. If Nissan is playing games here with the loss of bars ( and therefore with the warranty) we need to document it.


your statement is a litany of contradictions. You say charging to 100% is not the problem but your car only charges to 92% which means significant degradation. IT SHOULD BE CHARGING TO 97%. Also thinking (again as usual) you have one of the first 30 kwh packs and the later ones will prove to be much more durable...

Either way, getting a database going with LEAF Spy readings on when these bars are disappearing is vital. If a warranty is not going to happen until the pain level hits 10, we all want to know. Previously it was assumed the percentages would be the same meaning that a 30 kwh pack would see replacement at a level only slightly below the range of a new 24 kwh pack.

If replacement is not going to happen until the pack reaches a range near the replacement level of the 24 kwh pack, this would be a HUGE game changer. With the 100,000 mile warranty, one could be suffering for years waiting for that last bar to disappear!
Last edited by DaveinOlyWA on Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 11311 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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