Scaramanga
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:31 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 308884
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:07 am

So your strategy would be to drive it & charge every night up to 100% to see if the SOH comes up?
2016 SL Premium - Gunmetal Grey, built 2/2016
2014 S w/ QC - Cayenne Red, built 1/2014
EVSE: ChargePoint 25 32A Plug-In w/ 18' Cord
ELM 327 / LeafSpy Pro
'06 Sentra Compact Spare / Jack
Renault Tow Hook

2016 Murano SL AWD
VW / Audi / Volvo ex-aficionado

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11958
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:54 am

Scaramanga wrote:So your strategy would be to drive it & charge every night up to 100% to see if the SOH comes up?


No, no need. You want to do this if you need that extra range but if you don't, you are better off doing exactly what you are doing. Use the near middle of your SOC. Run it from 40 to 90% or whatever is best for you.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30 (build 10/2016); 22,003 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 101.21% kwh 28.1 QCs 190, L2's 213
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

baustin
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:41 pm

But you do need charge it to 100% on a regular basis (not every day) to keep the cells balanced. If your morning drive leaves you at your destination with 80% or less where the car will sit all day, then it is not a problem to charge to 100% daily. I would suggest using a charge timer so that it finishes about 15 to 30 minutes prior to departure (this may need adjusted if you are on TOU rates).
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

SageBrush
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 01, 2017 1:06 am

baustin wrote:But you do need charge it to 100% on a regular basis (not every day) to keep the cells balanced. If your morning drive leaves you at your destination with 80% or less where the car will sit all day, then it is not a problem to charge to 100% daily. I would suggest using a charge timer so that it finishes about 15 to 30 minutes prior to departure (this may need adjusted if you are on TOU rates).
If LEAFspy is to be trusted, my car bucks your advice. I think we charge to 100% perhaps once a month but the max/min cell delta is below 10 mv and often 7-8 mv. And incidentally, despite a very easy driving cycle and gentle climate the battery continues to shed SOH and Ahr by the month.

All quite perplexing.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

baustin
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 01, 2017 2:39 am

SageBrush wrote:
baustin wrote:But you do need charge it to 100% on a regular basis (not every day) to keep the cells balanced. If your morning drive leaves you at your destination with 80% or less where the car will sit all day, then it is not a problem to charge to 100% daily. I would suggest using a charge timer so that it finishes about 15 to 30 minutes prior to departure (this may need adjusted if you are on TOU rates).
If LEAFspy is to be trusted, my car bucks your advice. I think we charge to 100% perhaps once a month but the max/min cell delta is below 10 mv and often 7-8 mv. And incidentally, despite a very easy driving cycle and gentle climate the battery continues to shed SOH and Ahr by the month.

All quite perplexing.


Maybe you could try charging to 100% once a week, and see if it helps any.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

SageBrush
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 01, 2017 4:02 am

baustin wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
baustin wrote:But you do need charge it to 100% on a regular basis (not every day) to keep the cells balanced. If your morning drive leaves you at your destination with 80% or less where the car will sit all day, then it is not a problem to charge to 100% daily. I would suggest using a charge timer so that it finishes about 15 to 30 minutes prior to departure (this may need adjusted if you are on TOU rates).
If LEAFspy is to be trusted, my car bucks your advice. I think we charge to 100% perhaps once a month but the max/min cell delta is below 10 mv and often 7-8 mv. And incidentally, despite a very easy driving cycle and gentle climate the battery continues to shed SOH and Ahr by the month.

All quite perplexing.


Maybe you could try charging to 100% once a week, and see if it helps any.

Now sounds like a good time, before summer. Thanks -- I will.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Scaramanga
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:31 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 308884
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 01, 2017 6:13 am

baustin wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
baustin wrote:But you do need charge it to 100% on a regular basis (not every day) to keep the cells balanced. If your morning drive leaves you at your destination with 80% or less where the car will sit all day, then it is not a problem to charge to 100% daily. I would suggest using a charge timer so that it finishes about 15 to 30 minutes prior to departure (this may need adjusted if you are on TOU rates).
If LEAFspy is to be trusted, my car bucks your advice. I think we charge to 100% perhaps once a month but the max/min cell delta is below 10 mv and often 7-8 mv. And incidentally, despite a very easy driving cycle and gentle climate the battery continues to shed SOH and Ahr by the month.

All quite perplexing.


Maybe you could try charging to 100% once a week, and see if it helps any.


It may be for me that driving such short distances at low speeds and charging infrequently has something to do with it. I honestly haven't had the car long enough to get to know it well, so I'm still learning. It's weird btw to be someone who has hand built Volvo engines and transmissions to feel like a newb again, but thankfully there's plenty of material to read about the car and 6 model years of collective experience to research. I've been reading the 2014 service manual that's available online to get myself familiar, but there is still work for me to do on how the battery behaves.
2016 SL Premium - Gunmetal Grey, built 2/2016
2014 S w/ QC - Cayenne Red, built 1/2014
EVSE: ChargePoint 25 32A Plug-In w/ 18' Cord
ELM 327 / LeafSpy Pro
'06 Sentra Compact Spare / Jack
Renault Tow Hook

2016 Murano SL AWD
VW / Audi / Volvo ex-aficionado

gshepherd
Forum Supporter
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:01 am
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2016
Location: Seattle / Phoenix

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 01, 2017 2:54 pm

Just as a data point, we have two 2016 SV's, both purchased at the end of May 2016. One was manufactured 10/15, and the other 1/16. Both have followed the same trend with SOH are are about at 91 and 92% respectively (the cars read 98% and 96% at delivery and dropped to about 92% by October).

These cars also spent the winter over the last six months in "cool storage" in the Pacific Northwest while we wintered in Phoenix. Both LEAFs were left at 60% SOC, unplugged (although 12V de-sulfating battery minders were connected). Upon return, we found the LEAFs had only lost 1% in SOC. Interestingly, SOH readings on each are the same as before storage and holding more or less steady. We'll see what happens this summer.

Edit: I should add we generally follow the recommended charging advice in the manual. Primarily that means avoiding frequent topping off and avoiding letting the car sit for extended times at full/empty charge. We tried to implement a Stop-at-80% using a Raspberry pi and the OpenEVSE network interface by detecting the start of taper, but that ended up stopping the charge at 97%, which didn't really seem worth bothering with. The 2016 manual still recommends using Long-Life Mode (80%), even though the option had been deleted from the US models.

One last data point: my car at 92% SOH recently consumed 27,283 Wh from VLBW to full as measured at the 40A EVSE. The last time I did that test was 7/7/16, and consumption was 28,441Wh when SOH was 95%. Interesting. One variable is environmental temperature of mid 55F vs. mid 70+F explaining some of that.
2016 LEAF SV

rmorgansd
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 4:50 pm
Delivery Date: 14 May 2017
Leaf Number: 305326
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 29, 2017 1:25 am

Another data point for a brand new car. Two weeks ago I leased a 2017 SV here in San Diego, CA. Mfr date 2/2017, bought on 5/14/2017. So probably sat for 3 months at 100% charge I fear because Nissan removed the 80% charge option. Here are some stats:

Upon delivery it had 40 miles on the odo, battery at 80% SOC after a 30 mile drive from the dealer's storage lot. Leaf Spy showed 98% SOH, 93 Hx, 1QC and 6 L1/L2 charges. Wasn't real happy about the 98% SOH, was really expecting to see 100% but I took it.

Drove 40 miles around town, stop and go and SOH went down to 97% in one day. Did a L1 charge to 100% and drove another 90 miles over the next few days, SOH went down to 96%, Hx 92.

Fully charged from 27% to 100% using L1 for 22 hrs (open EVSE L2 charger is on order), After driving another 30 or so miles over the next few days SOH now 95%, Hx 90.8. GIDs with full (actually 97%) charge is only 347. Whisky, Tango, Foxtrot....over. Seems my battery is taking a rocket ship ride to the basement.

This is on a car with less than 300 miles, mild weather, driving easy. Is it just me or do you agree this seems bad for a brand new battery?

I've seen 3 yr old Leafs with 20k mi with far better stats. I'm an EE and I used to design battery chargers for a living and I know how to take care of batteries and was highly anticipating taking great care of this car. Thinking of going back to Nissan soon instead of waiting a year for the first checkup to show them these numbers to document that it's the battery and not me or my driving.

Any other new 30 kWh owners with a similar stats? Is this typical?
Carmel Mtn Ranch
Northern San Diego, CA

Scaramanga
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:31 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 308884
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 29, 2017 4:22 am

2016 SL took delivery in December last year, 2400 miles, SOH 93%. Lame.
2016 SL Premium - Gunmetal Grey, built 2/2016
2014 S w/ QC - Cayenne Red, built 1/2014
EVSE: ChargePoint 25 32A Plug-In w/ 18' Cord
ELM 327 / LeafSpy Pro
'06 Sentra Compact Spare / Jack
Renault Tow Hook

2016 Murano SL AWD
VW / Audi / Volvo ex-aficionado

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