DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:02 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Wow! Are you parked for long periods at above 90% state-of-charge? Being so close to the ocean, I can't imagine the car ever seeing 100+ temps, unless you QC often?


the degradation we are seeing for 2015 build 30 kwh packs are not heat related. How would you explain a pack in OR with near similar issues?


That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.


well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:09 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
the degradation we are seeing for 2015 build 30 kwh packs are not heat related. How would you explain a pack in OR with near similar issues?


That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.


well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.


I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:53 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.


well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.


I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?


well herein lies the issues. my attempts to gather info resulted in minimal and inconsistent data so I put together a survey and posted it in 40+ locations that 9 people filled out correctly

The 2nd issue is batteries are built in batches, not assembly line. Each batch must cure about 2 months so the build date could cover several months. The only clear thing is initial 30 kwh packs seems the most affected. Now how far into 2016 that batch extends is where we go off the rails.

Build date can be one indication but purchase dates are all over the map and despite posting instructions on how to determine build dates, the number I got was simply nowhere near enough to make any conclusions.

The latest date I got on a car showing higher than normal degradation was Feb 2016 but it very well could be a "one off" since it was a sample size of... one

So there is no consensus that the problem of a single bad batch even exists.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:04 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.


I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?


well herein lies the issues. my attempts to gather info resulted in minimal and inconsistent data so I put together a survey and posted it in 40+ locations that 9 people filled out correctly

The 2nd issue is batteries are built in batches, not assembly line. Each batch must cure about 2 months so the build date could cover several months. The only clear thing is initial 30 kwh packs seems the most affected. Now how far into 2016 that batch extends is where we go off the rails.

Build date can be one indication but purchase dates are all over the map and despite posting instructions on how to determine build dates, the number I got was simply nowhere near enough to make any conclusions.

The latest date I got on a car showing higher than normal degradation was Feb 2016 but it very well could be a "one off" since it was a sample size of... one

So there is no consensus that the problem of a single bad batch even exists.


Okay, so there's no consensus, but a strong indication that anything earlier than Feb '17 is suspect right?

At least our fellow leafer in Hawaii will qualify for a replacement soon. After which, regardless of bad batch or too much time on the dealer's lot, leaf808 shouldn't see this rapid degradation issue anymore ... maybe?


Edit: Feb '17 should've read as Feb 2016, in case anyone reads this later.
Last edited by Oils4AsphaultOnly on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:11 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?


well herein lies the issues. my attempts to gather info resulted in minimal and inconsistent data so I put together a survey and posted it in 40+ locations that 9 people filled out correctly

The 2nd issue is batteries are built in batches, not assembly line. Each batch must cure about 2 months so the build date could cover several months. The only clear thing is initial 30 kwh packs seems the most affected. Now how far into 2016 that batch extends is where we go off the rails.

Build date can be one indication but purchase dates are all over the map and despite posting instructions on how to determine build dates, the number I got was simply nowhere near enough to make any conclusions.

The latest date I got on a car showing higher than normal degradation was Feb 2016 but it very well could be a "one off" since it was a sample size of... one

So there is no consensus that the problem of a single bad batch even exists.


Okay, so there's no consensus, but a strong indication that anything earlier than Feb '17 is suspect right?

At least our fellow leafer in Hawaii will qualify for a replacement soon. After which, regardless of bad batch or too much time on the dealer's lot, leaf808 shouldn't see this rapid degradation issue anymore ... maybe?


nothing to do at this point but sit and wait. Most saw degradation almost immediately. The OR guy was seeing Hx degradation after just a few "weeks" dropping into the high 80's in less than 8 months only 2 months (at the time) that would even be considered "warmer"
weather.

Now I could post my stats but that is all but a waste of time because this thread will be buried with 2 dozen posts of how I don't count or my stats aren't "real" because of where I live...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jbuntz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:10 am

I have been keeping track of what has been reported here and Facebook. Most did not report build dates but those who did none I have seen are after feb 2016.
I have a list of about 30 who lost bars and 8 are oct 2015 to feb 2016.
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
30 Apr 2017 5175 mi 324 GID Ahr 70.75 SOH 89% Hx 85.31% kWh 25.1
11 Aug 2017 11 bar 9245 mi 282 GID Ahr 61.68 SOH 77% Hx 75.83% kWh 21.9
21 Oct 2017 10 bars 12000 mi 260 GID Ahr 57.22 SOH 71% Hx 70.58% kWh 20.2

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:33 pm

Anyone see any new info on the one guy who thinks his 30 kwh pack was replaced with a 24 kwh pack?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leafchacho
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:07 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Utah

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:43 am

Sadly I am adding mine to the list. Lost my first bar on 10/13/2017... Friday the 13th . About right, I guess.

2016 SV
Mfg 1/16
Original Purchase 11/16 (50 miles on odo)

On 10/16/17 Leafspy Pro reported.

AHr = 64.77
SOH = 81%
395.19V
Hx = 79.38
odo = 6,765
1 QC, 165 L1/L2

296 GIDs - 81.1%
SOC 97.8%
22.9 kWh Ramain

It has been dropping like a rock. When I purchased it used on 8/17/17 it was reading.

Ahr = 69.91
SOH = 87%
HX = 84.52
odo = 4,488

I've been driving it as easy as possible. No freeways. Coasting in N whenever I can, avoiding the brakes and driving in ECO mode always. The max I can get for an average is 4.3 Kwh, but normal is 4.2. Does that seem low?

So far I have lost 1AHr every 442 miles. Not sure when the battery gets replaced, but I have a feeling I will be getting close by next summer. I plan another 11k miles by next August. If the trend holds, that should put me at 40 AHr. Not sure what these 30kWh batteries start at, but shouldn't 40 AHr get rid of enough bars to warrant a new battery?

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 am

Leafchacho wrote:Sadly I am adding mine to the list. Lost my first bar on 10/13/2017... Friday the 13th . About right, I guess.

2016 SV
Mfg 1/16
Original Purchase 11/16 (50 miles on odo)

On 10/16/17 Leafspy Pro reported.

AHr = 64.77
SOH = 81%
395.19V
Hx = 79.38
odo = 6,765
1 QC, 165 L1/L2

296 GIDs - 81.1%
SOC 97.8%
22.9 kWh Ramain

It has been dropping like a rock. When I purchased it used on 8/17/17 it was reading.

Ahr = 69.91
SOH = 87%
HX = 84.52
odo = 4,488

I've been driving it as easy as possible. No freeways. Coasting in N whenever I can, avoiding the brakes and driving in ECO mode always. The max I can get for an average is 4.3 Kwh, but normal is 4.2. Does that seem low?

So far I have lost 1AHr every 442 miles. Not sure when the battery gets replaced, but I have a feeling I will be getting close by next summer. I plan another 11k miles by next August. If the trend holds, that should put me at 40 AHr. Not sure what these 30kWh batteries start at, but shouldn't 40 AHr get rid of enough bars to warrant a new battery?


Just to answer your question. Take your current AHr rating and divide it by your current SOH rating, and that'll get you the original AHr rating when new: 64.77 / 0.81 = 79.96 AHr

Others have lost their 4th bar at something above 40AHr, so you shouldn't have to wait too long.

On another front, since your battery is degrading so quickly, you might as well use it without regards to preserving battery life. You might get your warranty replacement sooner, and you might be surprised at what does or does not impact the battery health!
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

dfwpev
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:53 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 303648
Location: Dallas
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:51 am

Here is the data on a Dallas Texas 2016 30KW
Lost the first bar at 8000 miles
Lost the second bar at 14000 miles
Lost the third bar at 18000 miles....

I charge at home 5-6 days a week, no QC, but I do charge to 100 percent.

By the look of the curve, I'll be losing number 4 shortly after 20000 miles. Will let you know...right now I have almost 19000 miles.

One odd thing is my range is still 90 miles, and when new I was getting 105 miles, so barely a 15 percent drop. I would expect more like 20-25% loss of range.

Here are the Leaf Pro numbers as of 18366 miles.
AHr 53.5
SOH 67%
395.42 V
Hx 64.86
SOC 97.8%
244 GIDS

I have a 3 year lease, so It's up in Dec 2018.
Hope this helps.

Ron
2016 Red SL 1/5/16
AE charger with a 220 plug-in cord

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