mn4az
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:26 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
mn4az wrote:
mn4az wrote:Another Minnesotan here. Adding some initial stats to this thread:

'13 Leaf SV (Leased) - Leased 34 months. Drove 41K miles. All 12 bars intact when returned car. Mostly charged to 80% between midnight and 5a.

'16 Leaf SV (Purchased - Manufactured 12/15) . Typical charging pattern is to try and charge to 75-90%. Charging typically happens between midnight and 5a.

Date Ahr SOH V Hx ODO QC L1/L2 SOC
11/10/2016 74.49 93% 388.84 88.41 9769 3 350 87.70%
11/26/2017 70.85 89% 345.54 83.71 24414 7 1198 30.30%

The 11/10/2016 was actually a test for a friend. He wanted to ensure he could get a good read before testing used Leafs.
The 11/26/2017 reading is my test to make sure I could get the readings on my phone.

Pretty happy that in over a year my SOH only dropped 4%.

On Tuesday I plan on charging the car to 100% SOC and taking another set of readings which I will report back into the thread.


Here's my state from today from the Lite version of LeafSpy

Ahr = 70.85
SOH = 89%
V = 395.32
Hx = 83.71%
ODO = 24414
QC = 7
L1/L2 = 1205
SOC = 97.8%

Anyone care to comment on what they see within those stats?

The only change we'll make is to charge to 100% SOC when we know we may be at risk of dropping to <25% during the days driving. In the past we focused on holding near 80% SOC and if you got home at 5% SOC so be it. One other change will be, if we get home with <25% SOC to charge it to 30% - then finish the charge off during the evening hours when rates are less (off peak charging).



there is very little risk to charging to 100% during cold weather. Degradation after A YEAR is only 6% @ 32ºF verses 2% @ 40% SOC (general Li guidelines only here) so an overnight or even a few days? Not something you should do but if it happens, its nothing to lose sleep over. We also have to keep in mind, lower Winter range so charging to a higher SOC is not only minimally bad thing to do, its simply being prepared for the worst.

Its Summer you need to worry about and yeah, it will be more than warm enough.

The reality appears to be what happened before you got the car. 10% down on day one it would seem. Look at the stats of your 2013 and I think time on the lot is your main factor.


We purchased the '16 Leaf in April 2016. Took first Leaf Spy readings on 11/10/2016 - after driving the car almost 10K miles - disappointed with the 7% SOH drop in only 7 months. However, my perspective is that after 19 months of ownership, 24K miles of driving that I wish my SOH was higher than 89% but can't be too disappointed compared to some of the other stories I have read.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:05 pm

*sigh*. The degradation seems to be accelerating. Here's my latest stats:


Screenshot_20171126-095342.png
Screenshot_20171126-095334.png
Screenshot_20171126-095342.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

Eddiec
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Dec 2015

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:09 pm

Hi everyone. I live in Northern England in the UK and own a 30 kWh Leaf which I took delivery of on the 31st December 2015. I'm also a member of the Speak EV forum which seems to be predominantly frequented by EV owners from the UK and Europe. There is a Leaf Battery degradation thread there

https://speakev.com/threads/the-battery ... ead.18923/

Anyway, I found this thread interesting because I've only heard of one single instance of a 30kWh Leaf loosing a battery bar in the UK and that was used as a Taxi and lost the first bar at ~90k miles. My own Leaf has 94% SOH (75.43AHr) after 16500 miles.

Why are US Leaf batteries degrading so fast?

Two possible hypotheses

1. The 30kWh Leaf battery is far more sensitive to heat than the 24kWh version. The UK climate is very kind to Leaf batteries with temperatures above 90f pretty rare.

2. The batteries in European Leafs were built in a different way and are more robust.

Hope this information is useful.

jbuntz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:42 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:*sigh*. The degradation seems to be accelerating. Here's my latest stats:


Screenshot_20171126-095342.png
Screenshot_20171126-095334.png
Screenshot_20171126-095342.png

I am at 69% SOH 253 god at 13,484 mi :(
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
30 Apr 2017 5175 mi 324 GID Ahr 70.75 SOH 89% Hx 85.31% kWh 25.1
11 Aug 2017 11 bar 9245 mi 282 GID Ahr 61.68 SOH 77% Hx 75.83% kWh 21.9
21 Oct 2017 10 bars 12000 mi 260 GID Ahr 57.22 SOH 71% Hx 70.58% kWh 20.2

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:44 pm

jbuntz wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:*sigh*. The degradation seems to be accelerating. Here's my latest stats:


Screenshot_20171126-095342.png
Screenshot_20171126-095334.png
Screenshot_20171126-095342.png

I am at 69% SOH 253 god at 13,484 mi :(


Are you trying to make me feel better? Well, it's working! :p
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7269
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:04 pm

Another 4 bar loser, in Chandler, AZ:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2473641 ... 5921284575

4th bar gone at under 16.2K miles in under 2 years. He says he has a 30 kWh car that was built in late 2015.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

SageBrush
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:26 am

cwerdna wrote:Another 4 bar loser, in Chandler, AZ:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2473641 ... 5921284575

4th bar gone at under 16.2K miles in under 2 years. He says he has a 30 kWh car that was built in late 2015.

Have any of the 4 bar losers reported SOH or SOC data ?
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4351
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:51 am

Unless they find a way to fix this Nissan could be replacing that Arizona pack four times under the warranty. At what point is it cheaper for them to just buy it back? (if the owner would even be amenable)
More likely they'll just keep replacing it however many times they have to, averaged across the fleet it isn't that big a deal, some number of cars will get totalled, others the owners (could be second or third by then) will stop bothering with it or whatever.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7269
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:55 am

SageBrush wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Another 4 bar loser, in Chandler, AZ:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2473641 ... 5921284575

4th bar gone at under 16.2K miles in under 2 years. He says he has a 30 kWh car that was built in late 2015.

Have any of the 4 bar losers reported SOH or SOC data ?

This one didn't, but I'm fairly sure we have SOH data from at least 1 4 bar loser further up in this thread.

Oils4AsphaultOnly: I wouldn't be that concerned about an 18 mV imbalance. Imbalances seem to get larger while the battery is under heavier loads anyway.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:37 am

I wasn't concerned about the imbalance (that red box was an artifact of my view at the time), but of the accelerating degradation after one summer's heat wave. I started in may (6-months after initial lease) @ 100% SOH, and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.

Come to think of it. That 18mV difference was immediately after a full rebalancing charge! I had literally just started the car and took the screenshot before driving off.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

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