webeleafowners
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:53 pm

ddh1313 wrote:I actually think the GOM is extremely accurate (ducking under the table now). If I see X range remaining and continue to drive at or below that speed until the car dies on the side of the road, it will have been almost spot on. I think the perception of it being unreliable is mainly due to that fact that a typical use case does NOT involve arriving at a charger with "---" on the GOM even though that technically is the capability of the car. Seeing triple digits at 100% is at least looking up I think, especially with some miles on the clock.


Yepir. Us too. GOM is very accurate for us. Probably has to do with the kind of driving we do. I also think we have seen very little degradation. Even on a cooler morning like Sunday, maybe 4 degrees c, a full charge before our road trip was 192 km. Depending on the route we take it’s actually pretty accurate. We pre heat so not much energy used in heating. This climate definitely agrees with a 2016 leaf.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:24 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
ddh1313 wrote:I actually think the GOM is extremely accurate (ducking under the table now). If I see X range remaining and continue to drive at or below that speed until the car dies on the side of the road, it will have been almost spot on. I think the perception of it being unreliable is mainly due to that fact that a typical use case does NOT involve arriving at a charger with "---" on the GOM even though that technically is the capability of the car. Seeing triple digits at 100% is at least looking up I think, especially with some miles on the clock.


Because of the way it works, it will work well for some driving scenarios, like yours. Essentially, your last few minutes of driving before shutting the car off at home happen to use virtually the same KWHs per mile as your overall average. It will not, however, work well for most driving scenarios, for most people.


+1

My 30 kwh LEAF would show 130 miles, I would get 105 -115 so not real different. But my normal way home was from the North where there is a 500 ft drop from the freeway to my neighborhood and that was good for adding .1 -.2 miles per kwh so an overestimate was expected and normal and this actually the case for most.

Most people don't live on the freeway so their range estimate (which they expect to get while on the freeway) will be bloated because that is how they end EVERY driving day.

So in a sense, I can say the GOM is consistent. "Accurate?" ummm... no.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

amissionleaf
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 302367

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:20 pm

amissionleaf wrote:
amissionleaf wrote:just to report that my '17 leaf got a firmware update today. I don't have any leafspy data but I feel the update added about 15 - 20 miles to the remaining range reading. the longest range I saw in last summer was about 125 miles with a full charge. Today the range is around 105 with a full charge before the update, and showing 102 remaining + 22 driven right after update. The car was built 11/2016 and I got it in march 2017, now has 20250 miles on it.


this morning (the day after SW update) the GOM shows 125 miles range after a full home L2 charge,

I did an experiment to find out what is my leaf's current range after the sw update. I did a full charge in the morning the day before yesterday, I went my normal commute without charging it yesterday. last night before I head home, the dash showed I have run 96.5 miles with 17% charge left. Since the distance to home is around 17 miles and I don't want to risk to fully discharge the pack, so I connected it to a 110v power outlet. 100 min later, the dash shows it added 8% charge to 25%. When I got home, the remaining charge dropped to 7% and the total distance I had is 117.7 miles. so I guess the range of my pack for my commute need (mixed local and highway, but sometime slow sometimes up to 75 mph, a/c most time on) is around 115 miles. pretty happy with the result at 20000+ miles on it now.
2014 S; 33500 miles, returned with 12 bars.
2017 SV; 20000+ miles, 0 bar lost. sw update 10/8/18, feels like 15 miles range back,.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9418
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:32 pm

Do you know what the range, measured again by your commute, was before the update? Sorry if you already mentioned that somewhere.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

amissionleaf
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 302367

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:45 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Do you know what the range, measured again by your commute, was before the update? Sorry if you already mentioned that somewhere.


Sorry I didn't measure this kind of range before the sw update. What I can recall was before the update, when I drove a bit over 80 miles at a full charge, I would get battery low warning with about 18% charge left and this happened quite some times. this time I didn't even get this warning at 96.5 miles with 17% charge left. I still remember last night it gave battery low warning at 14% charge left.
2014 S; 33500 miles, returned with 12 bars.
2017 SV; 20000+ miles, 0 bar lost. sw update 10/8/18, feels like 15 miles range back,.

amissionleaf
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 302367

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:06 pm

Leaf battery degradation vary between packs and owners but for a specific pack the degradation would be kind of consistent. According to the graph of the degradation over months on this forum, I would guess the miles read when 4th bar is lost would be about 3.6x of the miles read when the first bar is lost. Being that said, if you lose your 1st bar at 30000 miles, most likely you will lose your 4th bar around 108000 miles if no changes in location, charging pattern and driving habit. then most likely you won't get a free battery replacement.
2014 S; 33500 miles, returned with 12 bars.
2017 SV; 20000+ miles, 0 bar lost. sw update 10/8/18, feels like 15 miles range back,.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:29 am

amissionleaf wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Do you know what the range, measured again by your commute, was before the update? Sorry if you already mentioned that somewhere.


Sorry I didn't measure this kind of range before the sw update. What I can recall was before the update, when I drove a bit over 80 miles at a full charge, I would get battery low warning with about 18% charge left and this happened quite some times. this time I didn't even get this warning at 96.5 miles with 17% charge left. I still remember last night it gave battery low warning at 14% charge left.



That would be normal. Realize with longer range that "17%" is more valuable than the degraded "18%" since those warnings are triggered by estimated remaining charge in the packs.

Its not until the 40 kwh pack came out that the warnings were redone. IOW; You will get the warning at the same time for both 24 and 30 kwh packs so the 30 kwh pack warning will come in at a lower SOC but the DTE (distance to empty) will be similar
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

goldbrick
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:51 am

I don't know what this signifies but the only times I ever got a LBW on my 2017 S was at 14%. This happened several times and it was always a surprise to me. I haven't driven to LBW since I had the update but the several times it happened before the update was always at 14%.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:04 am

goldbrick wrote:I don't know what this signifies but the only times I ever got a LBW on my 2017 S was at 14%. This happened several times and it was always a surprise to me. I haven't driven to LBW since I had the update but the several times it happened before the update was always at 14%.


It signifies minimal degradation...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 287
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:42 pm

amissionleaf wrote:Leaf battery degradation vary between packs and owners but for a specific pack the degradation would be kind of consistent. According to the graph of the degradation over months on this forum, I would guess the miles read when 4th bar is lost would be about 3.6x of the miles read when the first bar is lost. Being that said, if you lose your 1st bar at 30000 miles, most likely you will lose your 4th bar around 108000 miles if no changes in location, charging pattern and driving habit. then most likely you won't get a free battery replacement.

If the first bar drops at 30K mi. that represents a 17% loss of capacity. He will drop the next bar at 77%, the third bar at about 70% and the fourth at 64%. So somewhere around 60k-65K mi. he will lose the fourth bar and be eligible for a new battery. The numbers may vary slightly but should be close to the mark. This assumes the driving habits and distances remain relatively constant. Battery degradation seems to remain consistent unless conditions change. YMMV.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

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