DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:47 am

Anyone on the list have their replacement long enough to make an evaluation or do we have to wait till end of this Summer?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:59 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Anyone on the list have their replacement long enough to make an evaluation or do we have to wait till end of this Summer?


Would it be wishful thinking to hope that the replacements are derated 40kwh packs?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

SageBrush
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:07 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Anyone on the list have their replacement long enough to make an evaluation or do we have to wait till end of this Summer?


Would it be wishful thinking to hope that the replacements are derated 40kwh packs?

Wouldn't that require BMS programming by Nissan ?

Nissan has a long history of ignoring the LEAF between generations so it strikes me as a stretch to think they are going to put programming resources into a fraction of the cars on the road that need replacement. They just want to reach end of warranty, and not a day longer or a penny more.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:14 am

SageBrush wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Anyone on the list have their replacement long enough to make an evaluation or do we have to wait till end of this Summer?


Would it be wishful thinking to hope that the replacements are derated 40kwh packs?

Wouldn't that require BMS programming by Nissan ?

Nissan has a long history of ignoring the LEAF between generations so it strikes me as a stretch to think they are going to put programming resources into a fraction of the cars on the road that need replacement. They just want to reach end of warranty, and not a day longer or a penny more.


For the 2013-2015 I'd agree, but with how poorly the 30kwh packs are doing, it's potentially significantly more than "just a fraction", especially with some of them potentially needing multiple replacements during the warranty period.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:23 am

40 kwh packs in a 2016-2017 is not going to happen so don't waste time speculating on it. What WILL happen is 2018 tech will be part of the pack replacement... eventually :)
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4562
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:23 am

I'd prefer they just buy the vehicle back or swap it out even for a Sentra rather than replacing the pack four times over the next six years, but that isn't happening either. I guess they have the capacity to produce replacements of the existing flawed cells far into the future. They've probably also done the math on it and know the percentages on vehicles in warm climates, how many will get totaled, fail for some other reason that isn't economically feasible to repair (boy is that a wild card they can control) etc etc etc and it leaves them with a very manageable number for a big company.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Maggie
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 301689
Location: Port St Lucie, FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:00 pm

Went into dealer today to have the diagnostic done to verify the 8 bars on my 2016 30kWh battery. After test was done, apparently whoever got the diagnostics at Nissan said they wanted the service dept to perform more tests that required me to leave the car with the dealer for 2 days while they drove it around and then ran the diagnostic test again. Apparently this would be to confirm that the battery status is truly what it reported and not due to something else? Service Dept and helpful man at Nissan Customer Service said they had never heard of this being required when the battery is clearly showing 8 bars. Not too sure what this means, but it seems clear that I can't proceed with ordering the new battery until this extra testing is done. Figured I would go along with this for now, and see if I have to jump through more hoops for the warranty to be honored once this additional diagnostic is done. Seems weird to me --- what other readings are they going to look at that would determine I would NOT be covered under the warranty? All my charging practices and usage were marked as excellent for prolonging the battery...so???? I thought 8 bars was ALL that was needed to qualify for the warranty.

SageBrush
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:13 pm

Maggie wrote:Went into dealer today to have the diagnostic done to verify the 8 bars on my 2016 30kWh battery. After test was done, apparently whoever got the diagnostics at Nissan said they wanted the service dept to perform more tests that required me to leave the car with the dealer for 2 days while they drove it around and then ran the diagnostic test again. Apparently this would be to confirm that the battery status is truly what it reported and not due to something else? Service Dept and helpful man at Nissan Customer Service said they had never heard of this being required when the battery is clearly showing 8 bars. Not too sure what this means, but it seems clear that I can't proceed with ordering the new battery until this extra testing is done. Figured I would go along with this for now, and see if I have to jump through more hoops for the warranty to be honored once this additional diagnostic is done. Seems weird to me --- what other readings are they going to look at that would determine I would NOT be covered under the warranty? All my charging practices and usage were marked as excellent for prolonging the battery...so???? I thought 8 bars was ALL that was needed to qualify for the warranty.

They find it hard to believe the battery is that bad and are hoping that the test will magically improve tomorrow.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:17 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I'd prefer they just buy the vehicle back or swap it out even for a Sentra rather than replacing the pack four times over the next six years, but that isn't happening either..

This is one of my major peeves with the battery replacement story: for much of the warranty period the car is operating at less than expected range.

The cars are legal lemons.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:21 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:For the 2013-2015 I'd agree, but with how poorly the 30kwh packs are doing, it's potentially significantly more than "just a fraction", especially with some of them potentially needing multiple replacements during the warranty period.

So far it appears once again to be a big problem mostly for the owners in hot weather climates. And the car was only made for ~ two years.

This sounds like a few thousand cars to me. Of the choices it can make, I expect Nissan to use 30 kWh packs they have stored somewhere that will perform even worse than the originals since they have sat on a shelf until use. I estimate the chance of Nissan giving away larger packs than required by warranty for free as replacements as right about zero. And remember, the current 40 kWh pack is itself going to be a short lived product ... just long enough to come to terms with LG.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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