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2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:35 am
by cwerdna
Not sure if there already is a thread for this as I searched around and couldn't find one.

Please merge if there is one already.

I think this is a first. We already have a report of a 30 kWh (2016) Leaf w/a capacity bar gone. Came across it at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 269910910/. The guy's at 14.4K miles and his location is listed as Orlando, FL.

Report capacity losses, esp. capacity bar losses on 2016 to 2017 30 kWh packs here.

Re: 2016+ 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:45 am
by lkkms2
Don't have face book account. Besides milage (14k), any AHr reading? Or explanation of their Charging patterns? Understand it would be higher ambient temperatures in Florida

Re: 2016+ 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:00 pm
by cwerdna
lkkms2 wrote:Don't have face book account. Besides milage (14k), any AHr reading? Or explanation of their Charging patterns? Understand it would be higher ambient temperatures in Florida

Sign up for one. :) You can lurk and don't need to post anything or share any info.

No, there's almost no info.

edit: He's provided attached Leaf Spy screenshots. I can see in one of them:
AHr: 63.91
SOH: 80%
Hx: 76.47%

His voltage delta at full/nearly full charge looks fine at 16 mV. It'll be interesting to see if it gets MUCH worse on a partly discharged battery or to see what it looks like if at min cell voltage of 3.712 volts or lower. I don't know the CVLI test details other than me briefly looking at the pointer from viewtopic.php?p=383401#p383401.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:53 am
by JTim
cwerdna wrote:Not sure if there already is a thread for this as I searched around and couldn't find one.

Please merge if there is one already.

I think this is a first. We already have a report of a 30 kWh (2016) Leaf w/a capacity bar gone. Came across it at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 269910910/. The guy's at 14.4K miles and his location is listed as Orlando, FL.

Report capacity losses, esp. capacity bar losses on 2016 to 2017 30 kWh packs here.


Cross-posted to: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=20924&p=488611#p488611

First battery capacity bar gone, 3/17/17

Manufacture date from inside car door is 10/15 *NOT* 2016 as I originally posted

ODO 6,084
AHr=64.97
SOH=81%
Hx=79.63
10 QC / 139 L1/L2

Charging habits: mostly from 20% to 80%, a few to 100%, from memory, 2 QCs in 97-degree temperatures, one or three times car sat more than 4 hours at 100% charge in the heat, and maybe twice (from memory) at 95% charge more than 12 hours (in a garage -- those times I misjudged thinking it would be a busy day, so fully charged ran short errands, car got to 95% at about 3pm, then sat that way until the next morning).

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:39 am
by jhm614
JTim wrote:First battery capacity bar gone, 3/17/17

Manufacture date from inside car door is 10/15 *NOT* 2016 as I originally posted

ODO 6,084
AHr=64.97
SOH=81%
Hx=79.63
10 QC / 139 L1/L2

Charging habits: mostly from 20% to 80%, a few to 100%, from memory, 2 QCs in 97-degree temperatures, one or three times car sat more than 4 hours at 100% charge in the heat, and maybe twice (from memory) at 95% charge more than 12 hours (in a garage -- those times I misjudged thinking it would be a busy day, so fully charged ran short errands, car got to 95% at about 3pm, then sat that way until the next morning).

Wow! I wonder if your battery is an outlier? Either way, you are well on your way to being a 30kWh warranty replacement. Depending on the temps this year, you could lose your 2nd bar by fall. What's your range like now?

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:58 am
by JTim
jhm614 wrote:
JTim wrote:First battery capacity bar gone, 3/17/17

Manufacture date from inside car door is 10/15 *NOT* 2016 as I originally posted

ODO 6,084
AHr=64.97
SOH=81%
Hx=79.63
10 QC / 139 L1/L2

Charging habits: mostly from 20% to 80%, a few to 100%, from memory, 2 QCs in 97-degree temperatures, one or three times car sat more than 4 hours at 100% charge in the heat, and maybe twice (from memory) at 95% charge more than 12 hours (in a garage -- those times I misjudged thinking it would be a busy day, so fully charged ran short errands, car got to 95% at about 3pm, then sat that way until the next morning).


Wow! I wonder if your battery is an outlier? Either way, you are well on your way to being a 30kWh warranty replacement. Depending on the temps this year, you could lose your 2nd bar by fall. What's your range like now?


GOM went from 110 mile range to high 101 miles but that's the GOM.

I keep track of charges, and for the most part it has been about once every 6-7 days with my driving style and terrain. For each charge I reset my Average kWh and my B-trip meter (rather than resetting those every time I start the car as some people do). (I also keep track of what percentage to what percentage my charges are, and on average they go from 20% to 80% over the last year and three months.) So over those 6-7 days my B-trip meter says I go from low 70 miles per charge to high 90 miles per charge with an average around 60-70 miles per charge most of the time. I seem to be getting 4.5 to 5.0 average kWh lately to get those 90 miles per charge.

So it will be interesting to see how much more often I charge now (perhaps it will be closer to once every 5-6 days now? ) how many miles less I might go for those charges (perhaps closer to 60 to 70 miles per charge?).

Is it my imagination? If I remember the battery wiki, the 2011-2012 cars also tended to average 13-15 months before the first battery capacity bar disappeared? Yet there are 2013s on the forum that have gone much longer than I have?

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:05 am
by mihird
I am at 21,000 miles on my 30Kwh 2016 SV purchased in Dec. 2015. so far no apparent range loss or loss of capacity bar. 95% of my charging happens on home installed Level 2 - very occasional use of DCFC. I am in CA - San Francisco area...used for 86 mile daily round trip commute..so far, no issues even through winter months.

My car gets charged to 100% 5 days of the week.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:06 am
by JTim
JTim wrote:
jhm614 wrote:
JTim wrote:First battery capacity bar gone, 3/17/17

Manufacture date from inside car door is 10/15 *NOT* 2016 as I originally posted

ODO 6,084
AHr=64.97
SOH=81%
Hx=79.63
10 QC / 139 L1/L2

Charging habits: mostly from 20% to 80%, a few to 100%, from memory, 2 QCs in 97-degree temperatures, one or three times car sat more than 4 hours at 100% charge in the heat, and maybe twice (from memory) at 95% charge more than 12 hours (in a garage -- those times I misjudged thinking it would be a busy day, so fully charged ran short errands, car got to 95% at about 3pm, then sat that way until the next morning).


Wow! I wonder if your battery is an outlier? Either way, you are well on your way to being a 30kWh warranty replacement. Depending on the temps this year, you could lose your 2nd bar by fall. What's your range like now?


GOM went from 110 mile range to high 101 miles but that's the GOM.

I keep track of charges, and for the most part it has been about once every 6-7 days with my driving style and terrain. For each charge I reset my Average kWh and my B-trip meter (rather than resetting those every time I start the car as some people do). (I also keep track of what percentage to what percentage my charges are, and on average they go from 20% to 80% over the last year and three months.) So over those 6-7 days my B-trip meter says I go from low 70 miles per charge to high 90 miles per charge with an average around 60-70 miles per charge most of the time. I seem to be getting 4.5 to 5.0 average kWh lately to get those 90 miles per charge.

So it will be interesting to see how much more often I charge now (perhaps it will be closer to once every 5-6 days now? ) how many miles less I might go for those charges (perhaps closer to 60 to 70 miles per charge?).

Is it my imagination? If I remember the battery wiki, the 2011-2012 cars also tended to average 13-15 months before the first battery capacity bar disappeared? Yet there are 2013s on the forum that have gone much longer than I have?


3/19/17

"Put the candle BACK!"

This morning the 12th battery capacity bar was back.

I'm positive I counted correctly on the 17th of March, and there were 11 bars. This may have been a false alarm, or the hot weather, or it is on the verge of disappearing.

SOC=82%
Ahr=53.52
GIDS=256
Hx=79.82%
12 V battery=12.56V

JTim

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:59 pm
by jbuntz
Is that firs number SOH not SOC?

If I remember right the 24kWh cars lose a bar at 53-55Ah. Also your Ahr seems really low compared to new over 80 and mine at 72

Maybe the bar software is using the same triggers as the 24kWh battery.

If that is true then we don't get a new battery until it is close to 50%??

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:34 am
by JTim
JTim wrote:
JTim wrote:
jhm614 wrote:
Wow! I wonder if your battery is an outlier? Either way, you are well on your way to being a 30kWh warranty replacement. Depending on the temps this year, you could lose your 2nd bar by fall. What's your range like now?


GOM went from 110 mile range to high 101 miles but that's the GOM.

I keep track of charges, and for the most part it has been about once every 6-7 days with my driving style and terrain. For each charge I reset my Average kWh and my B-trip meter (rather than resetting those every time I start the car as some people do). (I also keep track of what percentage to what percentage my charges are, and on average they go from 20% to 80% over the last year and three months.) So over those 6-7 days my B-trip meter says I go from low 70 miles per charge to high 90 miles per charge with an average around 60-70 miles per charge most of the time. I seem to be getting 4.5 to 5.0 average kWh lately to get those 90 miles per charge.

So it will be interesting to see how much more often I charge now (perhaps it will be closer to once every 5-6 days now? ) how many miles less I might go for those charges (perhaps closer to 60 to 70 miles per charge?).

Is it my imagination? If I remember the battery wiki, the 2011-2012 cars also tended to average 13-15 months before the first battery capacity bar disappeared? Yet there are 2013s on the forum that have gone much longer than I have?


3/19/17

"Put the candle BACK!"

This morning the 12th battery capacity bar was back.

I'm positive I counted correctly on the 17th of March, and there were 11 bars. This may have been a false alarm, or the hot weather, or it is on the verge of disappearing.

SOC=82%
Ahr=53.52
GIDS=256
Hx=79.82%
12 V battery=12.56V

JTim


Counted 11 battery capacity bars this morning 3/22/17.

ODO 6,157
AHr=65.42
Hx=80.04
SOH=82%

Tim