GerryAZ
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Posts: 1417
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:13 pm

It is 92F and after 2-1/2 hours of L2 charging I measured the temperature of the onboard charger/DC-DC converter housing (top liquid-cooled section) at 137F. The top cover is a little cooler, but still too hot to keep my hand on. The fans have not come on. The coolant pump is definitely running faster than when I checked it while charging the other night. The service manual indicates that the fans will come on at 140F (60C) so it was almost hot enough to have the fans turn on while charging.

I don't think the charger is dissipating (wasting) much energy--the amount of coolant is small and there is no air flow through the radiator so a few watts dissipated will raise the temperature significantly over the time it takes to charge.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12116
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:52 pm

GerryAZ wrote:It is 92F and after 2-1/2 hours of L2 charging I measured the temperature of the onboard charger/DC-DC converter housing (top liquid-cooled section) at 137F. The top cover is a little cooler, but still too hot to keep my hand on. The fans have not come on. The coolant pump is definitely running faster than when I checked it while charging the other night. The service manual indicates that the fans will come on at 140F (60C) so it was almost hot enough to have the fans turn on while charging.

I don't think the charger is dissipating (wasting) much energy--the amount of coolant is small and there is no air flow through the radiator so a few watts dissipated will raise the temperature significantly over the time it takes to charge.


WOW! that is extreme. I measured the side of the PDM about 2-3" from the top and got 106º while the top was only 98 after 2 hours. Ambient was mid 60's. By then the pump was probably only running 75-80%. The other day, it was squealing about twice as loud and likely running 100%. Can you feel your pump vibrating when it runs? Also can you hear water being moved?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 24,858.2 miles.363 GIDAhr 80.66Hx95.95%kwh28.1QCs215,L2's 227
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
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Posts: 12116
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:56 pm

rt84vhf wrote:As a related side note, just yesterday I noticed an update to LeafSpy was available. It now provides temperatures for additional internal components.


Installed the update last night and so far the new data is confusing. Supposed to have Motor and 2 inverter positions measured. Well, motor changes but inverter temps are stuck on 40º. I also took a look at the other parameters added including trip performance. There are two, startup for each time the car is powered on and "since last charge"

Since I reset my gauges every day, today my performance in the morning had me at 4.6 miles/kwh on the dash but LS was putting me at 3.9 I had one trip at 6.0 miles per kwh (believable since it was all in town driving) But later I went out and had two trips of 5.0 and 5.1 but my dash had dropped to 4.4. LS since last charge was the same at 3.9


so lot more info but a lot more questions?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 24,858.2 miles.363 GIDAhr 80.66Hx95.95%kwh28.1QCs215,L2's 227
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GerryAZ
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Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:14 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:WOW! that is extreme. I measured the side of the PDM about 2-3" from the top and got 106º while the top was only 98 after 2 hours. Ambient was mid 60's. By then the pump was probably only running 75-80%. The other day, it was squealing about twice as loud and likely running 100%. Can you feel your pump vibrating when it runs? Also can you hear water being moved?


I can feel the pump vibrating, hear it running, and hear water being moved normally. My ambient temperature is 30 degrees higher than yours and my charger temperature is about 30 degrees higher so no problem. If I had a way to turn the fans on, I would have tried that to see how quickly the coolant temperature dropped, but the coolant temperature needed to climb several more degrees before the fans would start automatically.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

DaveinOlyWA
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Posts: 12116
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:31 am

GerryAZ wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:WOW! that is extreme. I measured the side of the PDM about 2-3" from the top and got 106º while the top was only 98 after 2 hours. Ambient was mid 60's. By then the pump was probably only running 75-80%. The other day, it was squealing about twice as loud and likely running 100%. Can you feel your pump vibrating when it runs? Also can you hear water being moved?


I can feel the pump vibrating, hear it running, and hear water being moved normally. My ambient temperature is 30 degrees higher than yours and my charger temperature is about 30 degrees higher so no problem. If I had a way to turn the fans on, I would have tried that to see how quickly the coolant temperature dropped, but the coolant temperature needed to climb several more degrees before the fans would start automatically.


Well Aaron told me I had little to worry about while waiting for parts. My pump works but its barely moving water. I can squeeze the hoses flat while the pump is running and unlike my previous two LEAFs where I could easily hear the water moving, I cannot hear nothing but the pump squealing now

Makes me wonder what the upper temperature limit is?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 24,858.2 miles.363 GIDAhr 80.66Hx95.95%kwh28.1QCs215,L2's 227
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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TomT
Posts: 10564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
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Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:00 am

Here are the accepted maximum design temperature ranges for electronics. This should give you an idea...

Temperature Grades and Associated Temperature Ranges:

Temperature Grade Temperature Range
Commercial 0°C to 85°C
Industrial -40°C to 100°C
Extended -40°C to 125°C (1)
Military -55°C to 125°C

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Makes me wonder what the upper temperature limit is?
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

DaveinOlyWA
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Posts: 12116
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:03 am

TomT wrote:Here are the accepted maximum design temperature ranges for electronics. This should give you an idea...

Temperature Grades and Associated Temperature Ranges:

Temperature Grade Temperature Range
Commercial 0°C to 85°C
Industrial -40°C to 100°C
Extended -40°C to 125°C (1)
Military -55°C to 125°C

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Makes me wonder what the upper temperature limit is?



85!! Damn, I just found me a new broiler!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 24,858.2 miles.363 GIDAhr 80.66Hx95.95%kwh28.1QCs215,L2's 227
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:18 pm

Remember that this is for the temperature of the components themselves which always run hotter than ambient...

DaveinOlyWA wrote:85!! Damn, I just found me a new broiler!
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12116
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:03 pm

2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 24,858.2 miles.363 GIDAhr 80.66Hx95.95%kwh28.1QCs215,L2's 227
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scaramanga
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:31 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 308884
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: Water Pump DOA

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:06 pm

I think I may have the same problem. After putting my '16 on to charge today (@28% SOC) I came back out the garage after three hours and heard a high pitched whine, really pretty loud. After reading Dave's post I wanted to see if my charger was keeping cool, and it's definitely not. The top of the Power Delivery Module was much too hot to touch for more than a few seconds and only one of coolant hoses coming out of the front of the inverter(?) was even warm. I'm not sure it's moving water, if it is it's not evident, certainly can't hear any coolant moving. Radiator fans were not running.

I unplugged the charger and the pump spun down and stopped, but the PDM is still zinging hot.

I don't have a no-touch thermometer, so I can't be precise, but it's hot. I get that it should get warm, but I'm really not comfortable with the sound of the water pump, it shouldn't be that loud in my view.

I'll get it checked out at the dealer right away.
2016 SL Premium - Gunmetal Grey, built 2/2016
2014 S w/ QC - Cayenne Red, built 1/2014
EVSE: ChargePoint 25 32A Plug-In w/ 18' Cord
ELM 327 / LeafSpy Pro
'06 Sentra Compact Spare / Jack
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2016 Murano SL AWD
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