specialgreen
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2017
Location: Minnesota

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:36 pm

SageBrush wrote:OP: That kind of behavior is going to degrade your battery quickly.


I thought the degradation was caused by a combination of:
- high temp
- AND/OR high state of charge
- TIMES the duration (number of hours spent in the above conditions)

That is, lots of time spent at 100% charge will degrade the battery (like people who charge to 100% as soon as they get home); and lots of time spent at 8 or 9 temp bars will degrade the battery (like people in Phoenix). And many hours with both high SOH plus high temp would be the worst situation.

But, if the damage were proportional to number of hours, then having high temp or having 100% charge for only a few hours, a few times a year, would make little difference... at least, that was what I thought I'd read here.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9581
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:40 pm

I thought the degradation was caused by a combination of:
- high temp
- AND/OR high state of charge
- TIMES the duration (number of hours spent in the above conditions)

That is, lots of time spent at 100% charge will degrade the battery (like people who charge to 100% as soon as they get home); and lots of time spent at 8 or 9 temp bars will degrade the battery (like people in Phoenix). And many hours with both high SOH plus high temp would be the worst situation.

But, if the damage were proportional to number of hours, then having high temp or having 100% charge for only a few hours, a few times a year, would make little difference... at least, that was what I thought I'd read here.


That's essentially true, although lots of time spent at 100% indicated charge in cold weather seems to do little damage compared to a few hours in the Red zone in hot weather.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:40 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
I thought the degradation was caused by a combination of:
- high temp
- AND/OR high state of charge
- TIMES the duration (number of hours spent in the above conditions)

That is, lots of time spent at 100% charge will degrade the battery (like people who charge to 100% as soon as they get home); and lots of time spent at 8 or 9 temp bars will degrade the battery (like people in Phoenix). And many hours with both high SOH plus high temp would be the worst situation.

But, if the damage were proportional to number of hours, then having high temp or having 100% charge for only a few hours, a few times a year, would make little difference... at least, that was what I thought I'd read here.


That's essentially true, although lots of time spent at 100% indicated charge in cold weather seems to do little damage compared to a few hours in the Red zone in hot weather.



That's consistent with the general Lithium Ion storage guidelines here:
https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php ... _batteries

It appears the Leaf batteries have a much better lifespan than those shown on their site, but the general guidelines seem to still hold true. For ideal lifespan, store at 40% and at cold temperatures (just above freezing), if at all possible.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
7 bars and really feeling the range squeeze

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:39 pm

specialgreen wrote:But, if the damage were proportional to number of hours, then having high temp or having 100% charge for only a few hours, a few times a year, would make little difference... at least, that was what I thought I'd read here.

High SoC at high temperature is not a double whammy, it is a logarithmic whammy.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

specialgreen
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2017
Location: Minnesota

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:22 pm

SageBrush wrote:
specialgreen wrote:But, if the damage were proportional to number of hours, then having high temp or having 100% charge for only a few hours, a few times a year, would make little difference... at least, that was what I thought I'd read here.

High SoC at high temperature is not a double whammy, it is a logarithmic whammy.


I did one triple-DCFC trip (336 miles in 5 hours + 90 minutes charge-time), at about 70F ambient. I started with 6 bars, plus one from the motors, and each DCFC added one. I did the last 80 miles with 10 bars, where the blue temp bar on the right overlaps half of the lower red bar on the left. But the car was never over 80% SOC for more than 15 minutes.

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:05 pm

^^ I would not worry about very infrequent trips. Even if (and this is just wild speculation) your driving at 10 bars temperature has 10x the usual daily degradation, that is only 10 days less use over the life of the car. I'd expect once a week or more often to be readily apparent accelerated battery degradation.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

smkettner
Posts: 7203
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Battery temperature maxed out

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Burn it through, use it up. And start saving for a vehicle with superior chemistry and thermal management.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”