Icanmakeit
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:34 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 300625

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:52 pm

Cwerdna
thanks for pointing out my error
Its at 11 bars
Cheers

MVLeaf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:32 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2017
Leaf Number: 315076

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:14 pm

First of all, please tell me if I am posting in the wrong place :-)
On Nov 24th 2017 we bought a used 2015 SV from a dealer here in MA that had been used as a loaner vehicle to their customers, with 720 miles on the odometer and all 12 bars. Now has 2072 miles on the odometer, still 12 bars. In a warmish spell of weather, mid-40Fs, I'm seeing drop from 100% charge to 76% after 15 miles. I should say I have new snow tires all around mounted on steel wheels. But it's pretty flat here on Martha's Vineyard and no place where we drive above 45 mph.

I just got Leafspy Pro and I am seeing at the top of the Battery Cells graph a series of stats as follows:
54.12 Ahr SOH 87.15% Hx 78.8%.
On the Table page it has:
95.3% SOC 248 GIDs 51.58 Ahr 19.2 kWh.

Which Ahr value is correct?

I'm trying to determine if the dealer did anything tricky or if just perhaps didn't treat it well during the couple of years they had it on the lot with little usage. From what I read in other threads, this car is close to losing the first bar. MA has a lemon law which is 90 days so I'm about a week away from making any kind of claim if there is a basis for one.

Thanks very much, experienced insights would be most welcome.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8781
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Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:41 pm

I can't answer the AH question, but you are correct in that the car is fairly close to losing the 12th capacity bar. This is one of the big risks in buying a used (or even older stock new) Leaf: not knowing how "solid" that 12th bar is in fact. It seems unlikely that a reset was done. 60 miles of range in 40 degree weather is a little low, but not entirely out of line. Try inflating the tires to 42psi, and if you aren't using Eco mode in Winter, start doing so. I'll also repost my Tips & Tricks guide here.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6201
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:51 pm

MVLeaf wrote:In a warmish spell of weather, mid-40Fs, I'm seeing drop from 100% charge to 76% after 15 miles. I should say I have new snow tires all around mounted on steel wheels.
Those snow tires make a big difference on range. I will also note that when the capacity of the LEAF battery drops, it affects the top portion of the SOC range much more than the bottom portion. in other words, your car likely has lost more range from 100% SOC down to 76% SOC than from there down to zero. Also, this effect seems to get worse just before losing a bar which is where your LEAF appears to be.
MVLeaf wrote:Which Ahr value is correct?
Possibly both are "correct". The first one is how much capacity the BMS thinks the battery has at 100% charge. The lower number is how much is available at the current SOC. But the BMS has plenty of room for error, so neither is fully accurate.
MVLeaf wrote:I'm trying to determine if the dealer did anything tricky or if just perhaps didn't treat it well during the couple of years they had it on the lot with little usage.
It's hard to know if they did anything tricky, such as resetting the BMS to indicate 12 bars remaining, even though one or more capacity bars has previously been lost. IMO, 54.12 Ah is low enough that you *should* have lost the 12th capacity bar. It also doesn't seem to match the SOH of 87.15% (which I would expect to be lower).

I recommend that you watch the Ah reading and the number of capacity bars and see if they drop over the next couple of days. But even if they DO drop, that STILL does not mean that the dealership did anything underhanded. It could simply mean that the car has been sitting, fully charged, for some time and the BMS is just now finding out the true condition of the battery.

Depending on how much you paid for the car, you might be in pretty good shape. The batteries in the MY2015s have *usually* done better than most of the other model years out there.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

MVLeaf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:32 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2017
Leaf Number: 315076

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:12 pm

Thanks all for your helpful responses. I think the dealer was just inattentive rather than underhanded.
From this point forward, is there any reason to think that this car will lose bars faster than others over the next, say, 50,000 miles?
Also, is it OK to leave the OBDII gizmo plugged in?
Thanks!

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6201
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:35 pm

MVLeaf wrote:From this point forward, is there any reason to think that this car will lose bars faster than others over the next, say, 50,000 miles?
No.
MVLeaf wrote:Also, is it OK to leave the OBDII gizmo plugged in?
I used to, but I don't anymore. There are two reasons:
1) It drains the 12V battery and the LEAF does not do a good job of keeping that battery fully charged. (Good for Pb-acid, bad for Li-ion.)
2) If there is a cell phone within Bluetooth range running LeafSpy, it will constantly cycle relays in the car. That can't be great for the relays.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12965
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:11 am

MVLeaf wrote:First of all, please tell me if I am posting in the wrong place :-)
On Nov 24th 2017 we bought a used 2015 SV from a dealer here in MA that had been used as a loaner vehicle to their customers, with 720 miles on the odometer and all 12 bars. Now has 2072 miles on the odometer, still 12 bars. In a warmish spell of weather, mid-40Fs, I'm seeing drop from 100% charge to 76% after 15 miles. I should say I have new snow tires all around mounted on steel wheels. But it's pretty flat here on Martha's Vineyard and no place where we drive above 45 mph.

I just got Leafspy Pro and I am seeing at the top of the Battery Cells graph a series of stats as follows:
54.12 Ahr SOH 87.15% Hx 78.8%.
On the Table page it has:
95.3% SOC 248 GIDs 51.58 Ahr 19.2 kWh.

Which Ahr value is correct?

I'm trying to determine if the dealer did anything tricky or if just perhaps didn't treat it well during the couple of years they had it on the lot with little usage. From what I read in other threads, this car is close to losing the first bar. MA has a lemon law which is 90 days so I'm about a week away from making any kind of claim if there is a basis for one.

Thanks very much, experienced insights would be most welcome.


The table page shows estimated ahr remaining while the other two pages show estimated nominal capacity of battery pack. You should always go by the latter since the former is COMPLETELY dependent on the SOC.

Your best bet is to track your battery stats regularly (I record mine every morning before taking off for the day) be it once a day or once a week, whatever. Its the trends over time that will show you the best picture of what you have.


As for the dealer; it is pretty much a foregone conclusion the pack was abused. You shouldn't have half the loss you have considering your climate, mileage, etc.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

piseas
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:40 am
Delivery Date: 01 Feb 2015
Leaf Number: 315128

2015 Just lost 1st Bar

Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:13 pm

After 3 years and about 45,000 miles, I lost my first bar. I freaked. I read earlier models lost first bar even earlier. But wondering how others with this year are doing. Let me add I got over 100 miles per charge. Now its about 80 or less. Driving to work 60 miles round trip has forced me to charge with 110 charger at work. I have to again charge at night with 220. I am concerned charging twice a day, 5 days a week will further damage battery. I see there is a 2018 model with 150 but hear next year 250 miles will be available. I hope I can last till then as I put about 18k a year.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Leaf and unless something changes my mind, I will get another. I also don't want to change my 220 hard wired charging station at home for another type of system like the Bolt. Besides I don't think any other car offers a heated steering wheel. I do miss a sunroof.
2015 SL(First Nissan)
Pearl White-Premium Package-All Options
Purchased 1-2-15 w/ included Free Home L2 Charging Station
HomeTown-SoCal

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8781
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2015 Just lost 1st Bar

Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Lots to correct up there!

* Frequent charging does not by itself do any harm. That only happens if the battery pack is hot and the charging makes it even hotter.

* The Bolt uses the same L-2 charging stations as all other EVs except Teslas sold in the US.

* The Bolt and Kia Soul EVs also have heated steering wheels (it's part of an option package).
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:57 pm

MVLeaf wrote:I'm trying to determine if the dealer did anything tricky or if just perhaps didn't treat it well during the couple of years they had it on the lot with little usage. From what I read in other threads, this car is close to losing the first bar.

I don't see anything that would make me think the dealer was underhanded, and certainly nothing that would put the car in the lemon class.

Now, how much battery capacity do you have ? Something under 20 kWh.
What range is that good for ? Figure 2 kWh are not usable in one fashion or another, so 18 kWh from "charged to full" until "worrying about the car stopping."

With snow tyres and cabin heater use you are probably getting ~ 3.5 miles a kWh*, so range will be 18*3.5 = 63 miles
In better weather, less energy use tyres and less power drain from carbin heating, with non-aggressive driving it is pretty easy to manage 5 miles per kWh and then range will increase to ~ 18 * 5 = 90 miles.

*You can reset the trip meter and see your miles per kWh consumption from that point on. My car has one trip meter; some LEAFs have two I think.

======
Try to keep in mind that range is determined by battery capacity * consumption rate. Your present range is depressed by a battery that is in not great but not horrible condition, and a high consumption rate. In better weather the consumption rate (miles per kWh) will likely improve a lot and the range along with it.

There is a nice silver lining to your battery I think: either the Ahr rating will improve as the car comes out of its multi-year slumber at the dealer and then you will continue with the best Nissan has been able to make thus far, or you will probably end up with a warrantied free battery replacement in a couple of years by losing 4 bars of capacity within 5 yrs/60k miles. Time will tell. I suggest you track LeafSpy every quarter or so and enjoy the car along the way. The 5 year clock starts from when the car was put in service (first titled) and is noted on a vehicle history report. Google for a free one.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

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