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davewill
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Tue May 29, 2018 11:15 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:Agreed.

However, I will note that there IS a change in what happens at 120 VAC versus 240 VAC. Either the EVSE or the OBC or both needs to be programmed to limit the current at the lower voltages to 12A while it will have a higher limit for 240 VAC. As such, there is typically a blackout voltage somewhere between about 150 VAC and 180 VAC.


Since the new Nissan unit uses an adapter attached to the 14-50 plug, I expected that it would work like my welder and sense the presence of the adapter to switch to 120 volts. Also, the EVSE needs to change the pilot signal to correspond to 12 amperes to avoid overloading the supply circuit if it is used with a car capable of drawing higher current at 120 volts. I wish I could borrow one of these new units to test.



The adapter does not need to sense this it can be done via voltage. They also may have a hard limit below 240V at some point to insure cut off for brown outs. Some EVs will cut the charge with voltage sags and this may be a crude way to detect this without that change from 240 to 208 although that would be easy. It also may be there for other reasons. Without testing it is not easy to determine.


Yeah, they could have done it either way. Tesla uses a resister in the adapter because they need to tell the difference between different 240v adapters. I would have done the same thing here just to have a more positive indicator, and to have a more flexible design. However, assuming the device monitors voltage at all, which it almost has to in order to refuse to work on 208v, using a voltage cutoff would certainly work adequately for this design.

The point I wanted to make is that anyone who wishes to do a mod to fix this is likely to have to hack the firmware, not just the hardware.
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MikeD
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Tue May 29, 2018 12:23 pm

Nubo: Can't either a brownout or high resistance circuit defect cause an initial "no load" charging voltage in a 240v circuit to also be abnormally low?

GerryAZ
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Tue May 29, 2018 11:08 pm

A brownout would cause no-load voltage to be low, but a high-resistance condition will not show up until a load is placed on the circuit. In any case, Nissan should have designed the portable EVSE to work with nominal 208-volt receptacles in commercial/industrial facilities. I would be rather upset it I bought a portable Level 2 EVSE and found out it would not work on 208-volt as well as 240-volt circuits.
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MikeD
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Wed May 30, 2018 10:00 am

GerryAZ: I see what you are saying: if the EVSE initially acts like an voltmeter, i.e. present maybe mega-ohm (or more) resistance in the circuit, then the voltage drop across the rest of the circuit would be negligible -- yes, that should work.

However, is it too much to worry about a Murphy's Law situation, say initially one has a relative brownout of 240v service to near 208v AND a high resistance circuit defect? As it is, we sometimes represent "normal" 240v service as being in the range maybe 220-240v (or maybe even a larger interval), so what is the "normal" range about 208v service? Could there be overlap, or near overlap?

As to how Nissan "should" have designed its portable EVSE, don't you agree that safety should be given higher priority over convenience? Hopefully, we agree this country's infrastructure should be enhanced to the point that one need not feel it necessary to carry around an EVSE.

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Nubo
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Wed May 30, 2018 11:18 am

MikeD wrote:Nubo: Can't either a brownout or high resistance circuit defect cause an initial "no load" charging voltage in a 240v circuit to also be abnormally low?


In a high resistance situation Voltage sag would be even more revealing, I'd think. You probably wouldn't notice a "brownout" from 240 to 208 and only a small increase in current. But this is admittedly a layman's understanding. :oops:
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aldanra
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:28 pm

Did anyone get an answer from Nissan on this?
I spoke to the dealer, and they referred to me to the Aerovironment support people (I am not sure why, probably they are the original manufacturers). When I talked to Aerovironment support, they told me that it needs to be 240 V input, and the "cord" will never work with less voltage. According to them the only solution is to install a true 240V outlet, which in our tri-phase complex I am not sure it is even possible.

It is a pretty bad design, but I would have expected to have a better answer from them than: the problem is in your home, so we will do nothing to help. I guess they should have at least made you aware of the problem before they sold you the cord.

Levenkay
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:35 pm

aldanra wrote:It is a pretty bad design, but I would have expected to have a better answer from them than: the problem is in your home, so we will do nothing to help. I guess they should have at least made you aware of the problem before they sold you the cord.

Obviously, you have no appreciation for how difficult it is to do what you're asking. Bad enough that the EVSE must somehow come up with dozens of milliwatts of 12VDC power (we could be talking about five or ten milliamperes here, I hope you realize) to manufacture the 1kHz pilot tone and maybe operate a relay. But then you apparently expect to be able to develop such a supply that will work from an AC input of anywhere between 100 and 240V??? What do you think; that you can just order one from Digikey or something???

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EVDRIVER
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:52 pm

AV knows nothing about the Nissan unit so calling them is pointless. The unit is made by Panasonic and it is just a new version of the old units. There is no reason it should not work on 208 unless there is a bad ground or an intentional restriction. The EVSE Upgrade units work on a wide voltage range of 100-250V, If the 2018 can't work on a proper 208 outlet then there is some restriction imposed or improper ground.
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smkettner
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:04 pm

Code allows 208v in a NEMA 14-50 so AV is full of it, Panasonic did no homework in the design phase, and Nissan has their head in the sand.
208 is unbelievably common in the US market.
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Re: 2018 Leaf - Charger throws fault on 240V

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:34 am

@Levenkay Yet, EVSE manufacturers other than Nissan have the ability to handle a range of supply voltage, usually from 100V to 250V.

My Zencar 32A portable EVSE handles 100V - 250V supply, as does the JuiceBox Pro 40. Most ClipperCreek EVSEs will take either 208V or 240V supply - just to name a few...

So, it can't be that hard for Nissan to do likewise.
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