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Nubo
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:35 pm

TomT wrote:No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!

Nubo wrote:The original battery replacement price was subsidized. Nissan was providing the service at a loss. Ending the subsidy doesn't constitute poor treatment of customers.


Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:24 pm

Nubo wrote:
TomT wrote:No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!

Nubo wrote:The original battery replacement price was subsidized. Nissan was providing the service at a loss. Ending the subsidy doesn't constitute poor treatment of customers.


Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....


No. That warranty that they used to "stand behind" the battery was imposed on them by a class action lawsuit.
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SageBrush
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:40 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Nubo wrote:
TomT wrote:No, but foisting off a defective battery on them and then not standing behind it certainly does!



Far from it. They stood behind the battery with a warranty, which even applied to OP's purchase of a USED car whereby the weak battery was already factored into the purchase price. This goose was ready to lay a Golden Egg. All OP had to do was pick it up. Makes no sense. But... a promotional link by the way....


No. That warranty that they used to "stand behind" the battery was imposed on them by a class action lawsuit.

Right. And this business of the $5k price being "subsidized" is unsubstantiated. I'm much more inclined to think that the current pricing has a hefty profit margin for Nissan since they can presumably buy cells for way under $200 a kWh just like everybody else, yet they want ~ $350/kWh for replacement. $350 a kWh retail is what Tesla charges for their liquid cooled, advanced cell, range upgrade on the Model 3, and they are upfront in saying it is very profitable.
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cwerdna
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:50 pm

SageBrush wrote:Right. And this business of the $5k price being "subsidized" is unsubstantiated.

They've claimed the were subventing: https://insideevs.com/nissan-says-leaf- ... ney-loser/.
SageBrush wrote:I'm much more inclined to think that the current pricing has a hefty profit margin for Nissan since they can presumably buy cells for way under $200 a kWh just like everybody else, yet they want

Who sells these cells that are of the correct design and form factor that are qualified to work in a Leaf? There not only needs to be the cells, but also the modules they go in + the rest of the hardware that goes into the pack besides the casing + assembly and shipping costs + labor of removing the old pack and installing the new one.
SageBrush wrote:~ $350/kWh for replacement. $350 a kWh retail is what Tesla charges for their liquid cooled, advanced cell, range upgrade on the Model 3, and they are upfront in saying it is very profitable.

I'm hearing prices of $7K to $7.5K (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882&p=537280&hilit=facebook+%247K#p537280) which sounds like it includes labor from a well-known Leaf tech in the PNW. $7500 w/labor would put it at $312.50 per kWh. I'm not saying the price is good though.

Hahaha about "profitable". Got it, Tesla's "profitable" even though they've never had an entire profitable year yet, have lost almost $6 billion in net income (including the 2 profitable quarters) while having racked up over $10 billion in debt.

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SageBrush
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:58 pm

cwerdna wrote:Hahaha about "profitable". Got it,

No, you do not "get it."

Battery upgrade margin
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
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cwerdna
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:06 pm

SageBrush wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Hahaha about "profitable". Got it,

No, you do not "get it."

Battery upgrade margin

Oh I get it. But there are other pesky expenses that need to be covered like R&D, SG&A, interest expense, etc., like any other automaker. If Tesla were selling their vehicles and options at prices that enabled them to be profitable or at least breakeven and on a consistent basis... For the 1st half of 2018, they lost over $1.5 billion (page 5 of http://ir.tesla.com/node/18946/html). We'll hear about their most recent quarter's earnings (or lack of?) within about a month or so.

Not like they started a few years ago. They were founded in 2003.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SageBrush
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:08 pm

cwerdna wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Hahaha about "profitable". Got it,

No, you do not "get it."

Battery upgrade margin

Oh I get it.

Still not.
The battery. Not the company.

THE BATTERY
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
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cwerdna
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:13 pm

SageBrush wrote:The battery. Not the company.

THE BATTERY

So what? It tells me they've underpriced what they're selling then. They sell a whole bunch of things (cars, options on cars, solar systems, Powerwalls, etc.) that are "profitable" yet they're bleeding virtually every single quarter they've been reporting publicly. They IPOed in 2010. IIRC, they also publicly reported their earnings for the year before that. Before that, we don't know other than they were a loss-making company.

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SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:41 pm

cwerdna wrote:
SageBrush wrote:The battery. Not the company.

THE BATTERY

So what?

So Nissan is selling the battery for way over the marginal cost.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan won't replace my battery under warranty !!!

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:46 pm

SageBrush wrote:So Nissan is selling the battery for way over the marginal cost.

We don't know this. We do know they claim they were losing at $5499 at the time they revealed the price.

See my earlier comment at viewtopic.php?p=537925#p537925. If nobody can supply them those cheap cells as you claim (you'd still need to account for the other costs) or it's not worth all the engineering, validation and regulatory effort to incorporate those, then it's back to what AESC can produce it for. Remember, the quantity demanded even at $5499 (pack only) is likely to be very low. Not many folks here or on any Leaf FB groups have been willing to pay full price for a replacement pack. And, given that Nissan is dumping most of AESC, perhaps they weren't cost competitive?

Again, I'm not saying the price is good or that I like the price increase...

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