Lothsahn
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Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:03 am

dmacarthur wrote:Thanks all, this is great info. I do not seem to have a KW meter on-screen, the model S is the base model, unless I am missing something? That info would be really helpful.......


On my 2011, it's under Menu->Energy Info. It's possible this doesn't exist on the smaller screen model (S model in 2013). You can get the same info from LeafSpy under the power consumption screen--it shows up as "climate control".
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
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Stanton
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:36 am

Lothsahn wrote:Interesting. I can confirm on my 2011 that when on L1 charging, heat output is limited to approximately 1000-1200W when the car is ON (but not in ready mode) and connected to L1 charging. This roughly matches the input power from the L1 charger.


This is definitely not true for me on L2; don't know why it would be different than L1, but there it is.
That's why if/when I pre-heat (which isn't often) I usually give it > 15 minutes or I end up with a (slightly) reduced charge.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
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GerryAZ
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 pm

The liquid coolant heater in my 2011would draw up to its full-rated power (about 5 kW) when pre-heating while plugged in on L2 (never tried L1, but probably the same) so it would discharge the battery for a bit until coolant temperature increased enough to cause the power draw to be reduced. I always pre-heated for at least an hour to make sure the car was warm, coolant loop was hot, and battery was fully charged (by 3.3-kW charger) when starting my commute on a cool "winter" morning.

The PTC heater in my 2015 will also draw up to its full-rated power of about 5 kW under certain conditions, but tapers off faster than the liquid heater in the 2011. The heat pump power draw is much lower unless the set point temperature is high enough for the controller to decide that resistance heat is needed.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

BrockWI
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:01 am

I played with our 13 leaf S yesterday, it was 20F outside. With the fan on 4 temp set to 90F the car ramped up to 4000w then after about 5 minutes dropped to 3500w. I switched the fan speed to 1 leaving it set to 90F and it dropped to 1000w after afew minutes. Then I turned the fan back up to 4 and the wattage creeped back up to 3000w. It appears to step in 250w or so steps. I believe basically it heats up the elements but with a low fan speed the core warms up and steps down wattage. I would image if it was colder outside it would draw more power at a given fan speed to keep the core at a given temp and warmer outside and it would consume a lower wattage.

Oddly enough I did swap back and forth between normal and eco more and it never changed the power consumption.
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Oilpan4
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Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:25 pm

If I turn the temperature all the way down and drive in eco mode mine will run at under 500 watts, blow out luke warm air and stay pretty cold in the car, definitely not 60F.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

jdcbomb
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2015

Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:36 pm

SageBrush wrote:http://www.nissantechnicianinfo.mobi/htmlversions/2013_EV_Special/Climate_Control.html


I read through most of the link and it's quite interesting technical detail. I'm wondering though if the PTC heater for 2018 and newer is more efficient than 2013-2017? If so, then what would be typical energy use difference under the same heater use conditions?

I have a colleague who bought a non all weather 2018 and I was comparing it to my all weather 2018. Under the same weather conditions (30 F) it appears his heater power usage was only about 30 pct more than mine. Albeit not totally scientific as we were not closely monitoring the kW usage, but the range impact when the heater was engaged.
2018 Leaf SV - In Service 2019 January - Location: Raleigh, NC.
2013 Leaf SL - Original In Service 2013 February - Bar Losses: 2016.10.17 - 25,843 Miles -- 2017.06.23 - 32,080 Miles -- 2018.04.10 - 37,000 Miles -- 4th: 2018.09.23 - 44,255 Miles

SageBrush
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:08 pm

jdcbomb wrote:I'm wondering though if the PTC heater for 2018 and newer is more efficient than 2013-2017?

All resistance heaters have the same efficiency
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:39 pm

SageBrush wrote:
jdcbomb wrote:I'm wondering though if the PTC heater for 2018 and newer is more efficient than 2013-2017?

All resistance heaters have the same efficiency


Yes and no. All resistance heaters are rated "100% efficient" because any losses are in the form of heat, and thus get added back into the total. But if you compare, say, a baseboard electric radiator with a good fan-forced heater, you'll realize that some heaters are much more efficient at heating larger areas. I've gone through many electric space heaters over the years, and some have been great at heating with a 900 watt input or less, while others have sucked using 1500 watts - they just create a small bubble of hot air around themselves, while the air 10' away from them is too cool. I use electric radiators as well, and just putting a small fan in front of one will greatly boost its effectiveness. (Depending on the thermostat setting, it may also increase the energy used.) So just because all resistance heaters are 100% efficient at converting electricity into heat, don't assume that they all work equally well at heating an area for a given energy input.

While I think that the air to air PTC heater in the 2018 Leaf is likely the same efficiency as it was (and quite likely the same actual unit), the HVAC system as a whole could be a little more effective, and thus more efficient, at heating the cabin with less energy.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:05 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
jdcbomb wrote:I'm wondering though if the PTC heater for 2018 and newer is more efficient than 2013-2017?

All resistance heaters have the same efficiency


Yes and no.
While I think that the air to air PTC heater in the 2018 Leaf is likely the same efficiency as it was (and quite likely the same actual unit), the HVAC system as a whole could be a little more effective, and thus more efficient, at heating the cabin with less energy.

You are saying that the heat may be distributed differently. I suppose, but that is not an efficiency measure.

And of course nothing prevents you from tuning the fan in a car, or directing the hot air where you want it to go.
No matter, a kWh of electricity is turned into a kWh of heat.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Resistance heater actual amperage draw?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:17 pm

What I am saying is that some heaters use more energy to heat the same area thoroughly, because while they are 100% efficient at converting an electric current to BTUs, they vary widely in how well they distribute that heat. Since the PTC is just one element of the Leaf's HVAC system, with the blower being another, I think it's unlikely the PTC is more efficient, but possible that the HVAC system as a whole was improved a little. AFAIK the 2018's HVAC system is unchanged - except that you can now use Recirculate in Floor + Defrost mode. That alone could be the difference in effectiveness...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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