mentaluproar
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:22 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2015

Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:23 pm

I had an incident where the battery level on my leaf when into a nosedive while driving. I took measurements from leaf spy and brought them with me to the dealer. They found a few cells that were aging faster than the others but were still within spec. I'm at 75k miles and have 11 bars. The pack has aged very well, but those few cells are making this car unpredictable. The dealer flashed an upgrade to the PDM, told me too beat the holy shit out of the battery until I get a warning from the computer, then bring it back for the warrantee covered repair. I then paid for this and drove the screwed up car home. They apparently needed to recalibrate the brakes after screwing with firmware and didn't do it, so the brakes behaved unpredictably until a google search showed me how to recalibrate them myself. Totally worth paying for.

Just last night, I'm on the freeway driving home and get the low battery warning. That's fine. I can make it home with what's left comfortably. I end up getting off the freeway much sooner and coasting into a dealership to charge instead. It went into nosedive again. In less than 2 miles I went from mid teens to - - - on the battery level. When I coasted in, I read 7 gids. This is getting dangerous. It dropped so far and so suddenly, I don't think it would have even hit turtle.

Is there anyone I can talk to who can be the voice of reason and just say "yea, this is going to be covered in a few months anyway, let's just do it now?" There's plenty of power left in that pack but those few degraded cells make it so I can't use the rest of the damn pack.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:08 pm

Under those circumstances I don't believe that no cells are out of spec - unless it's really Cold when that happens. Anyway, don't charge to 100% - ever. That may bring them more out of balance.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:41 pm

I would take video of the cat doing this. Then contact customer affairs and tell them you expect a fix under warranty as the car is misbehaving.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

SageBrush
Posts: 4219
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:49 pm

The dealership has to perform a CVLI test
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Lothsahn
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:00 pm

SageBrush wrote:The dealership has to perform a CVLI test


We should be clear what Nissan Warrants and what Nissans's procedures are. Assuming this is a 2015 cat, the 2015 guide says the battery is warranted for 60k miles capacity and 100k miles defects. If it's a later model year 30kWh, it'd be 100/100. In any case, if the warranty is NOT expired, and you haven't caused one of the exclusions (flood, fire, racing, etc), it's covered. IANAL, but as I read the warranty, the cat does NOT need to fail a CVLI test to qualify, legally. However, Nissan may fight you tooth and nail unless you have their test showing a failure because that is their official procedure.

If you're not comfortable driving the cat in this condition (and I wouldn't be), I would get video of the cat malfunctioning and tell them that it's a safety issue covered by warranty and I expect it fixed. I would say I don't care what diagnostic tests they have or don't have showing the cat passing. The cat is malfunctioning and needs to be fixed under warranty based on the terms, regardless of the cause, whether battery or drive system or indicators. Keep in mind that you are NOT stating that the cat has cell failures. You're saying the cat is malfunctioning, providing inaccurate range indications and at risk of losing engine power without warning. You don't care the cause, you expect it to be fixed under warranty.

Be nice. Be firm. Read the warranty terms for your cat. Ask them to explain why a malfunctioning cat is not covered under warranty. When they explain it's not throwing diagnostic codes, tell them that codes are not a condition of the warranty in the warranty terms and that you have video demonstrating the cat malfunctioning due to defects in the car, which are covered by the warranty terms.

Warranty info: (Google "Nissan battery warranty terms leaf 2015")
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... pGoWAHpbrW

If they refuse, I would also mention that I will be filing a claim with the NHTSA and BBB. I would post the video to youtube (people love cat videos). If it gets to that, you may need to either wait for LVCI cell failure or hire a lawyer. File a report on safercar.gov.

Sudden loss of power has caused recalls for ICE cars. This is a serious issue and a diagnostic code is not a precondition to a warranty fix in the terms. Lots of cars have warrantied mechanical failures that don't throw codes.

Whatever you do, don't let the warranty run out. Then your ability to negotiate is severely compromised.

Good luck. If you don't have a failing LVCI test, it will be an uphill battle.
Last edited by Lothsahn on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

cwerdna
Posts: 9359
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:05 pm

I'm unclear of the model year of the OP's car. Might help to include it in the sig.

The battery defects warranty (NOT for gradual capacity loss) is 8 years/100K miles, whichever comes first on the 24, 30, 40 and presumably 62 kWh Leafs.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:10 pm

cwerdna wrote:I'm unclear of the model year of the OP's car. Might help to include it in the sig.

The battery defects warranty (NOT for gradual capacity loss) is 8 years/100K miles, whichever comes first on the 24, 30, 40 and presumably 62 kWh Leafs.


Agreed, we need to know model year. Drivetrain and EV system is only be 60k miles for 2015. If the failure is in the main computer, for instance, it would be a non warranty repair.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12207
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Delivery date suggests a 2015, but yes, that isn't conclusive.

OK, Lothsahn, we've had our fun. Time to put all the cats to bed. ;)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:15 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Delivery date suggests a 2015, but yes, that isn't conclusive.

OK, Lothsahn, we've had our fun. Time to put all the cats to bed. ;)


Hey, when I make an autocorrect mistake on my cell, I'm gonna OWN it!
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

SageBrush
Posts: 4219
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:39 am

Lothsahn, you are muddying the waters here.

Defective cell(s) are not a battery capacity warranty issue, they are a battery DEFECT warranty issue.
Nissan's protocols identify bad cells using what they call a CVLI test. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... li#p308501

I suggest OP ask the dealership to specify the tests performed, and to request a CVLI test if not yet evaluated.
I would not pursue the "safety" song and dance routine. All cars suffer a sudden loss of power when they run out of fuel.

Regarding LEAFSPY identification of bad cells: I don't think it follows the Nissan protocol. The bad cell test is meant to be performed when the battery capacity is at about two bars. I think (but am not positive) that two bars matches 3.712 Volt average cell pack.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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