LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12259
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:30 am

I would not pursue the "safety" song and dance routine. All cars suffer a sudden loss of power when they run out of fuel.


This would be much more like a defect that causes intermittent cut-outs of the fuel pump in an ICE. It would, IMO, be considered a safety issue.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4278
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:46 am

OP:
Post a cell voltage histogram from LeafSpy at 2 bars battery capacity.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4278
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:15 pm

I have a well balanced pack in my '13 LEAF . I drove the car down to LBW, which co-incided with loss of the 3rd fuel bar. My LeafSpy shots are below. Note that my lowest cell is still above the threshold required for the test so to mimic the CVLI I would deplete the battery further until the lowest cell hit 3.712 Volts.

Image
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Lothsahn
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Who can I contact about degraded cells?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:41 pm

SageBrush wrote:Lothsahn, you are muddying the waters here.

Defective cell(s) are not a battery capacity warranty issue, they are a battery DEFECT warranty issue.
Nissan's protocols identify bad cells using what they call a CVLI test. See viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12789&p=308501&hilit=cvli#p308501


Assuming the problem is defective cells (which is an assumption, because the cause is not known) then it would be a cell defect warranty issue. My point is that the warranty for battery defects does NOT state anything about a CVLI test. That is Nissan's protocol, yes, but not in the terms of the warranty. Proving the car's battery cells are defective is sufficient to trigger a warranty repair.

If their CVLI test did not show a problem, I'd tell them I still expect my car to be repaired, and if the problem is defective cells, it better be covered under the terms of the warranty. If the problem was NOT an issue of defective battery cells, then the owner is likely on the hook for the repair costs given the 77k miles, since all other systems run out at 60k miles.

SageBrush wrote:I would not pursue the "safety" song and dance routine. All cars suffer a sudden loss of power when they run out of fuel.


Sudden, unexpected loss of power is absolutely a "safety" issue. ICE cars have been recalled for such. If the car reads teens of miles of fuel and then suddenly no fuel, that's a safety issue. If it simply had degraded range but proper indication, it would not be a safety issue.

A Leafspy report at LBW would be very good to see. Agree with the poster who said to NEVER charge above 80% to try to exacerbate the problem and trigger a failure of the CVLI test.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”