poor climate control behavior

When the interior is cold, below the target temp, the heat and fan do not crank to get it up to the right temperature. One of the benefits of an electric car should be to get instant heat. The air coming in at my feet is not terribly warm. I would think that the fan speed would rise proportional to the difference between the current temp and the target temp, but it does not seem to do that. In auto mode, the fan never seems to blow hard.

If I start the climate control from the phone app, the heat pumps out and the fan cranks nicely. However, it doesn't seem to stop when it gets to the target temp. I read on a different thread that it seems to target 75 when started remotely, regardless of what you set the temp to. When I get in, it is very warm inside and the fan is blowing hard. I didn't measure it, but I am sure it is above 75 or close to it, such that there's no excuse for the fan to be blowing hard and heat pouring out.

When I turn the car on in that situation, the fan speed drops to nothing. What's going on? Why would turning on the car affect the climate control?

I have trouble believing this is by design.
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How it should work:

There is no excuse for not giving me cold and hot in as much quantity as the battery can deliver. There should be no difference between when the car is on vs when I turned it on remotely (and I should have a button that will leave the climate control on when I exit the car). I can understand that at full heat, or full cold, and full acceleration, the computer might want to back off on the heater or A/C pump to give me the amps I need to accelerate, but as soon as I back off on the go pedal it should resume. One might argue that this will hammer the range, but that's my problem. The car should not decide what is best for me. I paid for the electricity, and I want it.

The fan should blow in proportion to how different the target temp is from the current temp, and taking into account the amount of heat/cool coming from the heater/A/C.

Nissan used a water heater system which is not only slow to heat but inefficient. A simple $20 valve on the existing AC system and they could have had a heat pump which is more efficient and faster. When you use the timer it has time to reach temp and retains it in the system. The rest of the system is poorly designed like most things electric inside the cabin and if you have not noticed the heat will run when you don't want it on and when you are unaware. Worst HVAC system I have ever used on a car and on any EV. There are some mods coming to help some of this.

How disgusting. Thanks for the depressing information.

I took the car to the dealer and told them about the bad behavior. Here is what they wrote; "let car sit for ten minutes in pre-heat. got in car, found fan on low speed and temp at 68 degrees. No problems at this time." WHAT??? fan is low when car is 4 degrees from target and after 10 minutes it is not at target??? How hard can it be to ensure an electric car gets to 72 in less than 10 minutes in Seattle! It might have been 50 degrees. Oooh, how brutal!

I had a 1972 Cadillac Coupe DeVille when I was a teenager. I bought it for $200. I was annoyed that the fan didn't seem to work properly. Sometimes it wouldn't blow, so I tried to debug it. I started the car and confirmed the fan wouldn't blow. I crawled under the dash looking for the fan, hoping to find some loose connector. After a few minutes with the engine running, I was getting discouraged, then the fan roared, but I hadn't touched anything. It finally dawned on me that it wasn't running the fan because it did not have heat to blow. When the engine warmed up and was delivering heat, it turned on the fan. I was thrilled that my car was so clever. 39 model years later, I get all excited that I will have a car that will not only have a fully automatic HVAC system, but one with electric heat that will deliver heat within seconds. A '72 Cadillac is better than an '11 electric car? Are you kidding me? Just shoot me.

I am disgusted. I am appalled. I am pissed off.

For your amusement, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2280&p=148991&hilit=dilbert#p148991 to corroborate your thoughts on the lousy design of the other electrical things.

I am frustrated also with the climate control on the Leaf. I can preheat it via iPhone still plugged in to the charger unit and when I get into the car it is still blowing at a high speed with heat. But when I preheat not connected to the charger it shuts off on it's own when it reaches 75. My real issue with the climate control is when I am driving with the heat still on, in about 3 to 5 minutes it starts blowing cold air and I can't get the heat on again, even if I turn up the temperature it still blows cold air. I simply have to shut off the climate control then because it is chilling me. Better off to stay somewhat warm. However, eventually the rest of the time in the car I am starting to freeze. I now bundle up in layers of clothing when driving my Leaf in the Winter months. I can not rely on the heat being there for the duration of my driving time. Now if it is really cold out and I plan to do some length of time driving, then I borrow my husband's Prius, I can't stand being without heat. SUCKS!!!

mpm3710 said:

My real issue with the climate control is when I am driving with the heat still on, in about 3 to 5 minutes it starts blowing cold air and I can't get the heat on again, even if I turn up the temperature it still blows cold air.

Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. That is not normal behaviour. Are you using "auto" ?

Once the air gets warm - I've found that it stays warm and toasty.

EVDRIVER said:

A simple $20 valve on the existing AC system and they could have had a heat pump which is more efficient and faster.

Click to expand...

I don't know what it takes to get a heat pump (which won't work well in real cold places) - but Toyota ditched it for Plug-In Prius saying it was too heavy & complex (which I interpret as costly and less reliable).

http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-plug-in/100465-does-pip-have-pre-heater.html#post1423422" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Originally Posted by Prius Team
Nope. We've done away with the heat pump system on the demo model - it was heavy and complex.

Click to expand...

evnow said:

mpm3710 said:

My real issue with the climate control is when I am driving with the heat still on, in about 3 to 5 minutes it starts blowing cold air and I can't get the heat on again, even if I turn up the temperature it still blows cold air.

Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. That is not normal behaviour. Are you using "auto" ?

Once the air gets warm - I've found that it stays warm and toasty.

Click to expand...

Agree. Something is amiss.

I was out for an hour or so today and had a very comfortable cabin with the climate control set at 68°. No cold air.

Bill

If you want instant heat crank the temp to max..... and watch your range drop quickly.
Careful what you wish for.

Best to precondition if plugged in.

evnow said:

mpm3710 said:

My real issue with the climate control is when I am driving with the heat still on, in about 3 to 5 minutes it starts blowing cold air and I can't get the heat on again, even if I turn up the temperature it still blows cold air.

Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. That is not normal behaviour. Are you using "auto" ?

Once the air gets warm - I've found that it stays warm and toasty.

Click to expand...

No, I don't use the "auto" (except preheating uses auto by default) but when I am driving if I push the auto button everything comes on including the A/C so that is why I don't bother with the auto. I just push the manual button below the auto to turn on the climate control. It is usually set at 72 degrees and I have the blower in low. Sometimes I have to hit the front defroster to defog the windshield which turns on the A/C then I just turn off the A/C and leave it in front defrost for awhile then turn it off after a minute or 2. I never rely on the auto. I like to control when I need the defrost or not. Like I said earlier "auto" turns on everything at once. Tonight the heat stayed on longer than normal when I got to my destination. Then coming back home the heat came on and warmed the cabin pretty quickly but started blowing cold air just a mile away from home which I didn't mind because I was almost home.

Use auto. It works

I have the same issues with the heater. I can get the cabin warm with pre-heat.
But that is not effective when returning home.

I can sometimes get the heater to go on, but not with any reliability.
I have experienced warm air coming out by my feet and through the AC vents. I yearn for it at other times.

Last night, I resorted to the same tactics as others, and just shut the thing off to stay warmer, rather than let cold air come in.
Yes, I use auto.
Yes, my wife says turn off the AC.

Yes, I have tried waiting for it to heat up (when she is not in the car).
Yes, I have read the other threads, particularly the long one started by Phil.
I just dont get how to reliably get the heater to go on without using preheat.

mpm3710 said:

evnow said:

mpm3710 said:

My real issue with the climate control is when I am driving with the heat still on, in about 3 to 5 minutes it starts blowing cold air and I can't get the heat on again, even if I turn up the temperature it still blows cold air.

Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. That is not normal behaviour. Are you using "auto" ?

Once the air gets warm - I've found that it stays warm and toasty.

Click to expand...

No, I don't use the "auto" (except preheating uses auto by default) but when I am driving if I push the auto button everything comes on including the A/C so that is why I don't bother with the auto. I just push the manual button below the auto to turn on the climate control. It is usually set at 72 degrees and I have the blower in low. Sometimes I have to hit the front defroster to defog the windshield which turns on the A/C then I just turn off the A/C and leave it in front defrost for awhile then turn it off after a minute or 2. I never rely on the auto. I like to control when I need the defrost or not. Like I said earlier "auto" turns on everything at once. Tonight the heat stayed on longer than normal when I got to my destination. Then coming back home the heat came on and warmed the cabin pretty quickly but started blowing cold air just a mile away from home which I didn't mind because I was almost home.

Click to expand...

Well, A/C IS heat when the temperature is set above ambient. No A/C = no heat. Use auto.

Bill

a simple question:
How do you get the heat to go on with some reliability?
I have read and reread the manual.
The heater is schizophrenic, as far as I can tell.

For a week (two weeks ago), I thought the answer was be patient. Set the temp control to 78 or 80 and just wait.
but that has not worked in the past two weeks.
During a trip home last night from an evening out, during a 35-mile drive home--I could not get the heat to go on.
advice, please.

I am at peace. I have come to terms with the LEAF climate control sysem. We can rant and rave about what should have been, or what we would like to have, but with the exception of those talented folks willing to get into the innards of the system, we have what we have. My MO is:

Press mode button to get foot and defog.
Set temperature to 68 F.
Click fan up a notch or two.
Monitor the energy screen in the center console - SB about 1.7 kW.

Works for me. Clear windshield and comfortable cabin.

Bill

ebill3 said:

I am at peace. I have come to terms with the LEAF climate control sysem. We can rant and rave about what should have been, or what we would like to have, but with the exception of those talented folks willing to get into the innards of the system, we have what we have. My MO is:

Press mode button to get foot and defog.
Set temperature to 68 F.
Click fan up a notch or two.
Monitor the energy screen in the center console - SB about 1.7 kW.

Works for me. Clear windshield and comfortable cabin.

Bill

Click to expand...

I go and try, now.

mpm3710 said:

Then coming back home the heat came on and warmed the cabin pretty quickly but started blowing cold air just a mile away from home which I didn't mind because I was almost home.

Click to expand...

What mode were you using & was the air set to internally circulate ?

This is what I do if I want heat
- Set mode to Foot only, Air to Circulate, Fan at one or two
- Wait for 2 minutes
- Set mode to Face only (by this time the air would be warm) and Air to Circulate
- When it starts clouding, set mode to foot+defrost

Note that everytime you change the mode, Air Circulation setting can change.

Press mode button to get foot and defog.
Set temperature to 68 F.
Click fan up a notch or two.
Monitor the energy screen in the center console - SB about 1.7 kW.

Works for me. Clear windshield and comfortable cabin.

Click to expand...

Same thing I do. Uses the car at around freezing, and this keeps me warm without any fogging.

mpm3710 said:

evnow said:

mpm3710 said:

My real issue with the climate control is when I am driving with the heat still on, in about 3 to 5 minutes it starts blowing cold air and I can't get the heat on again, even if I turn up the temperature it still blows cold air.

Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. That is not normal behaviour. Are you using "auto" ?

Once the air gets warm - I've found that it stays warm and toasty.

Click to expand...

No, I don't use the "auto" (except preheating uses auto by default) but when I am driving if I push the auto button everything comes on including the A/C so that is why I don't bother with the auto. I just push the manual button below the auto to turn on the climate control. It is usually set at 72 degrees and I have the blower in low. Sometimes I have to hit the front defroster to defog the windshield which turns on the A/C then I just turn off the A/C and leave it in front defrost for awhile then turn it off after a minute or 2. I never rely on the auto. I like to control when I need the defrost or not. Like I said earlier "auto" turns on everything at once. Tonight the heat stayed on longer than normal when I got to my destination. Then coming back home the heat came on and warmed the cabin pretty quickly but started blowing cold air just a mile away from home which I didn't mind because I was almost home.

Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you are inadvertently using defrost, which chills the air even if the AC button is clicked so it's not lit up. Even if you have the temperature set to say 70, if you hit the defrost, it sends chilled air up the wind shield and basically in your face (again, even if you turn AC off). I can empathize with your frustration. What has worked well for me lately is preheating, a good half hour, getting the car nice and toasty. when I get in the car I use the on off button below Auto and turn the CC off. This turns everything off. I then set the mode button to foot/defog (evnow has a nice post on this: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6987&hilit=defrost+heater). This mode keeps just enough circulation going across the windshield to keep it clear while retaining the heat from preconditioning (as long as you are moving at moderate speeds-not adequate for stop and go). this lasts for quite a while, especially at freeway speeds where enough air comes in without the fan on (adjusting the fan (up or down) automatically turns on climate control). once fogg builds up I turn on the climate control, set to about 68, and use the mode button again to verify that I am in the feet/defog setting and then turn up the fan... I am now avoiding defrost in the winter because it's too cold. warm air with the fan set to one or two in the foot/defog setting keep the windows clear and the cabin warm. If you get several people in the car or for whatever reason you have to use power defrost, just know it will chill the air. hope that helps...

GaslessInSeattle said:

It sounds to me like you are inadvertently using defrost, which chills the air even if the AC button is clicked so it's not lit up. Even if you have the temperature set to say 70, if you hit the defrost, it sends chilled air up the wind shield and basically in your face (again, even if you turn AC off).

Click to expand...

I think it is likely Leaf has switched to getting fresh air instead of circulating. That can feel like suddenly the air isn't heated anymore.

evnow said:

GaslessInSeattle said:

It sounds to me like you are inadvertently using defrost, which chills the air even if the AC button is clicked so it's not lit up. Even if you have the temperature set to say 70, if you hit the defrost, it sends chilled air up the wind shield and basically in your face (again, even if you turn AC off).

Click to expand...

I think it is likely Leaf has switched to getting fresh air instead of circulating. That can feel like suddenly the air isn't heated anymore.

Click to expand...

I have not found that it's sustainable to have it set to recirculate in this whether, it fogs up almost instantly. keep in mind we are two adults and two kids much of the time. Your solution of using foot/defog combined with a good preheat and fresh air with no fan is the best solution I've found so far. thank you BTW, you saved me a lot of frustration with your thread on foot/defog.