Please complain to Nissan to fix the climate control

Please send email to [email protected] that says the following:

1) In Auto mode fan does not blow hard when the interior temperature is significantly different from the target temperature. It should blow harder as the current temperature is farther from the target. The fan has never gone past 50% speed while in Auto Mode even when the interior is 40-50 degrees, the target temp is 72, and the heater is producing heat. In other words, if I manually bump up the fan, the interior gets warmer quicker. Similarly, when the interior was hot, I had to bump up the fan to cool it quicker. I should not have to do that if the system is advertised and sold as Automatic.
2) The remote climate control turn on feature is set for a target of 78. It should use the temperature I set the last time I was in the car (which generally never changes).
3) The remote climate control turn on feature does not seem to slow the fan when the temperature is close to 78. The fan should be controlled automatically, unless we have more options on the phone, it should assume Auto Mode. As the temperature nears the target, the fan should slow down.
4) In Auto mode I should not have to repeatedly hit the defrost button to clear the windshield. The A/C should run to dehumidify the air as necessary.

5) The heater should not take minutes to deliver heat. It is an electric car and that means it should be able to blow heat into the interior within seconds. I understand that this might be caused by the fact that it has to heat water first, so this is probably not something that can be fixed via software update. However, Nissan should be informed that putting water into the system and ruining the fact that electric cars can produce heat quickly is not something consumers expect, and we should not forgive them for this.

It is possible that the engineers were attempting to get maximum range when they choose to make the system as it is now. That was a mistake. 99% of the time the driver is not in need of getting maximum range out of the car. The engineers should assume that the driver would like the HVAC system to spend the energy necessary to achieve the desired temperature/humidity in Auto Mode. To extend the range, the driver can take the system out of Auto Mode.

Please provide a system update that will fix as many of these as possible.

Thank you.

johntaves said:

1) The automatic fan does not blow hard when the interior temperature is significantly different from the target temperature. It should blow harder as the current temperature is farther from the target.

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When using Auto, it starts low since it's busy heating the coolant. As the coolant heats up, the fan increases speed.

johntaves said:

2) The remote climate control turn on feature is set for a target of 78. It should use the temperature I set the last time I was in the car (which generally never changes).

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It's 77 degrees. - Personally I would prefer that this be separately adjustable, however I've found that 77 has been pretty good for pre-heating and pre-cooling as it runs for 30 minutes max.

johntaves said:

3) The remote climate control turn on feature does not seem to slow the fan when the temperature is close to 78. The fan should be controlled automatically. As the temperature nears the target, it should slow down.

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When using pre-heating or pre-cooling, I think this is correct as it won't run indefinitely. When using the system in Auto mode, it will decrease the fan speed as it reaches the target temperature.

johntaves said:

4) The heater should not take minutes to deliver heat. It is an electric car and that means it should be able to blow heat into the interior within seconds.

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Two words, thermal mass. It takes a lot of effort to heat up the coolant.

johntaves said:

5) I should not have to repeatedly hit the defrost button to clear the windshield. The A/C should run to dehumidify the air as necessary.

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If you use Auto mode, the AC does stay on. But then again, if you need to clear your windshield the fastest, the defrost button is the way to go.

johntaves said:

It is possible that the engineers were attempting to get maximum range when they choose to make the system as it is now. That was a mistake. 99% of the time the driver is not in need of getting maximum range out of the car. The engineers should assume that the driver would like the HVAC system to spend the energy necessary to achieve the desired temperature/humidity. To extend the range, eco mode can slow down the energy consumption, and the driver can choose to turn off the HVAC system.

Please provide a system update that will fix as many of these as possible.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think many of the issues you describe are really "hardware" related concerns that cannot be addressed in "software." Maybe they'll be addressed in the 2013 model?

IMO other vehicles seem to blast the air far more and longer than needed. LEAF is a little on the light side but it is better than the alternative IMO. I suppose it would only really work for all if the bias could be adjustable.

I have no trouble punching the fan speed up a bit and back to auto as needed.

Otherwise I think it works quite well.

I think most are used to the max heat available with an ICE and need to adjust our expectations. I think we tend to crank the climate control a bit (hot or cold) due to our body temperature where as given a few extra minutes for our body to adjust it does actually work well IMO. When we have a chill we prefer to step into an extra warm room, same as when we are hot we love to step into an over cooled space.

DarkStar said:

When using Auto, it starts low since it's busy heating the coolant. As the coolant heats up, the fan increases speed.

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The fan in auto mode has never blown more than say 50% of full speed regardless of how different the current temp is from the target temp. Is my car operating as designed?

DarkStar said:

When using pre-heating or pre-cooling, I think this is correct as it won't run indefinitely. When using the system in Auto mode, it will decrease the fan speed as it reaches the target temperature.

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But, when I get into my car, after turning on the remote heat, the fan is at full speed (see above, the Auto mode has never run the fan this fast), pumping lots of hot air into the cabin, and the temp is certainly near or above 77/78. Again, is this as designed?

DarkStar said:

Two words, thermal mass. It takes a lot of effort to heat up the coolant.

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Yes, but what is the point of a coolant? I bought an electric car. I expected electric heat. Run air across an electric element. I have no problem with them trying to capture wasted heat from the batteries and needing a coolant for that, but put that heat exchanger up stream of the electric element, so I don't have to wait for heat.

DarkStar said:

If you use Auto mode, the AC does stay on. But then again, if you need to clear your windshield the fastest, the defrost button is the way to go.

Click to expand...

I leave the garage with clear windows. After a few minutes all windows are fogging up. Seattle weather, so 35-50 degrees outside and not exactly dry air. Is this as designed?

johntaves said:

The fan in auto mode has never blown more than say 50% of full speed regardless of how different the current temp is from the target temp. Is my car operating as designed?

Click to expand...

Mine has gone as high as one-short of the highest speed, but it wasn't for very long (maybe 5 minutes) before starting to decrease in speed.

johntaves said:

But, when I get into my car, after turning on the remote heat, the fan is at full speed (see above, the Auto mode has never run the fan this fast), pumping lots of hot air into the cabin, and the temp is certainly near or above 77/78. Again, is this as designed?

Click to expand...

This matches my experience.

johntaves said:

Yes, but what is the point of a coolant? I bought an electric car. I expected electric heat. Run air across an electric element. I have no problem with them trying to capture wasted heat from the batteries and needing a coolant for that, but put that heat exchanger up stream of the electric element, so I don't have to wait for heat.

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A few reasons have been given as possibilities. One was that they could use existing components from other product lines for both AC and heat. Another possible reason was that heating the coolant is a "safer" solution than heating coils and running air over them.

johntaves said:

I leave the garage with clear windows. After a few minutes all windows are fogging up. Seattle weather, so 35-50 degrees outside and not exactly dry air. Is this as designed?

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If the HVAC system is off, yes it will fog back up due to the humidity and temperature differential on the windshield. Air has to continue to flow over the windshield or the temperature needs to be equalized between outside and inside (has something to do with the Dew Point). The error in Nissan's way with this issue is that if the outside temperature is below 60 degrees, no matter what we do to the controls, the heater will come on if the fan is on.

I would recommend that people not send the above list to Nissan till we have some idea, through poll or otherwise, what unified message we really want to send. People in different climates surely will have a different list.

my list, especially for driving in cold climates, is a bit different from above:
I like having preconditioning automatically go to 77, being able to pick the temperature might be nice but is rather incidental. The main aggravations for me has to do with how it functions in cold whether.

Until recently I preheated, got in the car, turned on defrost and went driving only to have all the heat from the preheat lost by the chilled defrost blowing up the windshield and into my face. turning the heat on feels ridiculous only to have it cooled with defrost.

the best way I've come up with to conserve heat and be able to keep the windows clear is preheat, then get in the car and turn CC off manually (using the on off button) and make sure the mode button is set to feet/defog. The movement of the car at moderate speeds keeps the windows clear for quite a while unless I"m in stop and go. Once fog becomes an issue, I turn on CC, set temp to 68 and keep the mode at feet/defog. For cold whether driving, I never use recirculate as that traps in moisture and I never use the power defrost because that chills the air. I understand that the AC dries the air, but i get enough dry air by circulating in fresh air rather than having to freeze to get dry air and a clear windshield.

What I would like from Nissan:

-give me a way to use the circulating fan without engaging heat or AC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Ideally, there would be a defrost option that doesn't use AC and that directs all air to the windshield, not feet and defrost... there are times when my feet would be plenty warm if it weren't for the draft of air coming from the fan... by directing it to my feet, I must heat the air or loose the heat from preconditioning. If i'm needing the range, I don't want to be forced to use the heater.
-a simple solution that would help would be to add a max cold option so that even if the cabin temp went below 60 degrees, I could keep the hungry resistive heater from coming on but still be able to use the circulating fan. In this way, I could still use the foot/defog and not have to rely on the power defrost.
- I think the CC needs a major redesign in the long run (make that short run) to accommodate for the different priorities that EV owners are faced with. Anything that can be done with software update to give us more control would be much appreciated and ASAP please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This should be a Alpha level priority for Nissan, we need to know a solution is being worked out as a lot of folks are aggravated about this and the winter has just begun.

-----------------Give me control of Climate Control!!!!-----------------------

GaslessInSeattle said:

Until recently I preheated, got in the car, turned on defrost and went driving only to have all the heat from the preheat lost by the chilled defrost blowing up the windshield and into my face. turning the heat on feels ridiculous only to have it cooled with defrost.

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There seems to be a misconception that A/C = cold. A/C stands for Air Conditioning not Air Cooling, it can cool or heat depending on the CC temperature. Most importantly in this case it dehumidifies the air. This is why it is switched on automatically when you turn on the front windshield defogger. Every car I've driven in the last 10 years shows the A/C as on when I activate the windshield defroster, even if the dash does not show the A/C is on, believe me it is.

The air is cool in this case because either (1) the heating element has not warmed the fluid yet or (2) the temperature was set low. When I use the defroster I have the temp set at 68, it starts out cold and then the air heats up after a few seconds. I have suffered the exact problem described above when I used the remote CC, which warmed the air in the car instead of my windshield and fogged it up. The problem is with the remote CC, not the defroster. If we could set exact mode (temp, rear/front defrost, etc) for the remote CC settings via the App or have it use the last settings when the car was turned off (so I could configure the CC as desired before I turned the car off), I believe this particular problem would go away. My current workaround is to first unplug the EVSE (then put the plug on the ground), start the car, set the defrost, then (slowly) go back outside, collect my EVSE and store it in the car, get back in the car, and things seem to be as they should be temperature wise. Not ideal, but if I take my time coiling and storing the EVSE things work out fine in the end.

It would be faster if I could start the car and the CC works with the EVSE plug still in, but it appears Nissan has prevented that functionality to make sure I don't drive off with the plug. Probably a good safety feature, but it would be nice if the CC worked while the car was plugged in.

darkstar said:

johntaves said:

I leave the garage with clear windows. After a few minutes all windows are fogging up. Seattle weather, so 35-50 degrees outside and not exactly dry air. Is this as designed?

Click to expand...

If the HVAC system is off, yes it will fog back up due to the humidity and temperature differential on the windshield. Air has to continue to flow over the windshield or the temperature needs to be equalized between outside and inside (has something to do with the Dew Point). The error in Nissan's way with this issue is that if the outside temperature is below 60 degrees, no matter what we do to the controls, the heater will come on if the fan is on.

Click to expand...

I am talking about Auto mode.

My 1972 Cadillac that I bought for 200 bucks in 1982 kept even the rear window free of fog/condensation in Auto mode, and the rear window was in a different zip code from the front window.

I never had to touch the AC controls on my My 92 Nissan 300zx, so it is not like this is rocket science for Nissan.

There is really no excuse to constantly have to hit the defrost button to drive back the fog/condensation that is working its way forward whenever I put it back in Auto.

I am convinced that they attempted to save power to extend the range, and that is fundamentally flawed thinking. If we want to extend the range, we can shut stuff off.

smkettner said:

I think most are used to the max heat available with an ICE and need to adjust our expectations.

Click to expand...

I purchased an electric car that claimed it had automatic climate control, therefore I expected to get electric heat and cooling and have it heat and cool as quickly as it can, automatically. Anyone that tells me that I can push this or push that to get it to do what I want is missing the point. I am talking about Auto mode. It seems quite capable of putting out a lot of heat, so I am not complaining about poor heat production compared to an ICE. In Auto mode, I should not have to tell it to blow the fan. It should assume I want to get the interior temperature to the target as quickly as possible. It should not behave any differently than other nissan products, except for the fact that it should deliver heat much quicker than an ICE.

If the car slowed the fan or stopped producing heat while I accelerated, I would not complain. I would assume that is a compromise forced on my be having to send power to the drive motor.

padamson1 said:

There seems to be a misconception that A/C = cold. A/C stands for Air Conditioning not Air Cooling, it can cool or heat depending on the CC temperature. Most importantly in this case it dehumidifies the air. This is why it is switched on automatically when you turn on the front windshield defogger. Every car I've driven in the last 10 years shows the A/C as on when I activate the windshield defroster, even if the dash does not show the A/C is on, believe me it is.

The air is cool in this case because either (1) the heating element has not warmed the fluid yet or (2) the temperature was set low. When I use the defroster I have the temp set at 68, it starts out cold and then the air heats up after a few seconds. I have suffered the exact problem described above when I used the remote CC, which warmed the air in the car instead of my windshield and fogged it up. The problem is with the remote CC, not the defroster. If we could set exact mode (temp, rear/front defrost, etc) for the remote CC settings via the App or have it use the last settings when the car was turned off (so I could configure the CC as desired before I turned the car off), I believe this particular problem would go away. My current workaround is to first unplug the EVSE (then put the plug on the ground), start the car, set the defrost, then (slowly) go back outside, collect my EVSE and store it in the car, get back in the car, and things seem to be as they should be temperature wise. Not ideal, but if I take my time coiling and storing the EVSE things work out fine in the end.

It would be faster if I could start the car and the CC works with the EVSE plug still in, but it appears Nissan has prevented that functionality to make sure I don't drive off with the plug. Probably a good safety feature, but it would be nice if the CC worked while the car was plugged in.

Click to expand...

If you are having trouble with the car fogging up on preheat, I've found that to be related to residual excess moisture, which I've been able to get rid of by heating the car to max, till the air is humid and then opening up all the doors and letting it out. Our leaf no longer fogs up on preheat.

As for the power defrost, it sure seems to me like it engages the compressor and cools the air and makes me/my wife cold, defeating the prewarming effort. When I've left it on auto and let it do it's thing, it consumes several orders of magnitude more energy than if I prewarm, turn climate control off, and leave the mode set to feet/defog as I can drive around for a good half hour before fog begins to form with zero energy being used by CC during that time... all with the cabin at a very comfortable temperature even when it's in the 30's out. To me, that is the closest I've come to mastering this climate control thing, regaining most of the decline in range I was seeing just using auto. I hope they don't make the problem worse trying to fix it... it's so unnecessarily complicated that even explaining the problem and viable solutions gets convoluted.

GaslessInSeattle said:

If you are having trouble with the car fogging up on preheat, I've found that to be related to residual excess moisture, which I've been able to get rid of by heating the car to max, till the air is humid and then opening up all the doors and letting it out. Our leaf no longer fogs up on preheat.

Click to expand...

By residual do you mean over many days or do you do this purge every day?

I noticed last week that there was more moisture on the inside of the car than I expected when I got in at around 8pm, but thought that was just condensation from the car cooling as it was warm (and moist) during the day. No such issue today, but the humidity is much lower right now. When it gets moist again, maybe I'll try your purge technique on the way to work (I coast downhill pretty much the whole ride so it doesn't cost me) and see what happens.

GaslessInSeattle said:

As for the power defrost, it sure seems to me like it engages the compressor and cools the air and makes me/my wife cold, defeating the prewarming effort.

Click to expand...

For sure the compressor is engaged that's how it dries the air out, it just takes a long time for the heater to get warm in the LEAF every time you use it since there is no warm combustion engine to take advantage of. Try using the defroster when you first start an ICE, you'll get exactly the same sensation, and it will take just as long for it to get warm. However even when its blowing cold the window defogs in a few seconds, except when it's beads of water (after it's been outside all day till >9pm) then it takes a minute. That's where the heated steering wheel & seats really pay off...

i agree that climate control should more user options. as far as how it works, i cant say that its not working correctly.

in auto on any car ive had. the fan only runs to meet the target temp. if you crank up the temp into the mid 80's or 90's, the fan will be on high in about 5-6 minutes.

now saying "we should have this or that" without really knowing what it is we are talking about is ok but thinking Nissan did one thing or another and the reason they did it is not.

they made their decision based on getting a car out at a reasonable price. with the car being $34,000 there were some tough decisions to be made. the price of the 2012 with CWP should be clue enough as to some of those decisions.

the radiator system/heat pump on a regular car works because its simply has a TON of waste heat that would do nothing else in most circumstances. the system itself is simply EXTREMELY inefficient.

not sure that adding extra pumps, weight, cost and so on was the goal of product that was released in an area no colder than the Puget Sound region.

now, i live in that region and i would have been VERY upset to pay for the CWP because in my mind, i dont need it. i can deal with the infrequent cold here.

sure, its 40º all winter long. cold ya, but i DO NOT normally use heat in that situation. in some circumstances i will pre heat while in garage (did it a few times on Blink's dime downtown) but that is me and i am NOT TYPICAL

i have made many decisions in my life a long time ago that i needed to reduce my consumption. my house is set at 62º (not a misprint) i wear my Seahawks sweatshirt all winter long ( i have 7 of them, so i do not smell) i am comfortable.

at night i will huddle on the couch with my family in a blanket and watch movies until he falls asleep since we do not subscribe to any TV we do have netflix. (he is imprevious to cold. we literally have to force him to wear clothes. he is 4, i am guessing his "cold sensitive" cells are still developing)

so driving with no heat is not that big of a deal and i use it if i need it. i preheated and had it running the other day (it was 27º) but not constantly but on probably a good 30-40% of the time)

all in all; i am not crazy, i am not a hero. i only do what i am comfortable with and anyone here can do the same. i would not suggest going from 72 to 62 in one day though...baby steps, baby steps. you would be amazed at your ability to adapt

the heater is totally schizoid. works and does not work.

Yesterday morning, I put it in auto when I set out and it heated within 2 minutes.
at the end of the workday, I put it in auto 3 minutes after I set out and it just blew cool air.
temps set at 80 both times.
nothing I did, whether increasing temp or fan or putting it in recirc, would get the heat on.

totally, nuts.

DaveinOlyWA said:

...baby steps, baby steps. you would be amazed at your ability to adapt

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I am not interested in adapting. I purchased an electric car that has Automatic climate control, and that means I expect what I paid for.

I have edited the original posting to make it more clear. This thread is not about manual controls. This thread is not about the driver adjusting things. This thread is about fixing the fact that the Auto Mode does not do what it should do. Given that I have felt plenty of heat and cold pouring out of the system, which proves it can produce heat and cold when it is programmed to do so, there is no excuse for the Auto Mode system to not work as well as Nissan's other ICE products in AUTO MODE.

xyz

thankyouOB said:

the heater is totally schizoid. works and does not work.

Yesterday morning, I put it in auto when I set out and it heated within 2 minutes.
at the end of the workday, I put it in auto 3 minutes after I set out and it just blew cool air.
temps set at 80 both times.
nothing I did, whether increasing temp or fan or putting it in recirc, would get the heat on.

totally, nuts.

Click to expand...

Did you check the power consumption if it was consuming 1.5+ kW to heat?

Take it into the dealer. Mine works perfect every time. Usually just set to 72.
It was even bitter cold this morning. 66 in the garage, 36 outside, no preheat.

I could see the heater power consumption had to ramp up a bit from the mild garage to the colder temp outside.

smkettner said:

thankyouOB said:

the heater is totally schizoid. works and does not work.

Yesterday morning, I put it in auto when I set out and it heated within 2 minutes.
at the end of the workday, I put it in auto 3 minutes after I set out and it just blew cool air.
temps set at 80 both times.
nothing I did, whether increasing temp or fan or putting it in recirc, would get the heat on.

totally, nuts.

Click to expand...

Did you check the power consumption if it was consuming 1.5+ kW to heat?

Take it into the dealer. Mine works perfect every time. Usually just set to 72.
It was even bitter cold this morning. 66 in the garage, 36 outside, no preheat.

I could see the heater power consumption had to ramp up a bit from the mild garage to the colder temp outside.

Click to expand...

Yes, I ck the energy panel/power consumption.
In auto, set at 80 degrees, it reads between 1.5 and 3, whether sending out heat or not. (No, I am not talking about any initial period needed to heat the unit, water, coils or whatever.)
so, maybe dealer is my fate.

padamson1 said:

GaslessInSeattle said:

If you are having trouble with the car fogging up on preheat, I've found that to be related to residual excess moisture, which I've been able to get rid of by heating the car to max, till the air is humid and then opening up all the doors and letting it out. Our leaf no longer fogs up on preheat.

Click to expand...

By residual do you mean over many days or do you do this purge every day?

I noticed last week that there was more moisture on the inside of the car than I expected when I got in at around 8pm, but thought that was just condensation from the car cooling as it was warm (and moist) during the day. No such issue today, but the humidity is much lower right now. When it gets moist again, maybe I'll try your purge technique on the way to work (I coast downhill pretty much the whole ride so it doesn't cost me) and see what happens.

GaslessInSeattle said:

As for the power defrost, it sure seems to me like it engages the compressor and cools the air and makes me/my wife cold, defeating the prewarming effort.

Click to expand...

For sure the compressor is engaged that's how it dries the air out, it just takes a long time for the heater to get warm in the LEAF every time you use it since there is no warm combustion engine to take advantage of. Try using the defroster when you first start an ICE, you'll get exactly the same sensation, and it will take just as long for it to get warm. However even when its blowing cold the window defogs in a few seconds, except when it's beads of water (after it's been outside all day till >9pm) then it takes a minute. That's where the heated steering wheel & seats really pay off...

Click to expand...

what I mean by residual moisture is that over time, particularly with the higher relative humidity of warm summer air, the inside of the car absorbs moisture from our breathing. As the air gets colder, as in fall/winter, the moisture seems to accumulate in the upholstery. I was thinking about it as I loaded the my kids into the car this morning after a good half hour prewarm and realized I am essentially venting some moisture every day with the doors open long enough to get them into their car seats. Maybe for single driver commuting, some additional ongoing drying out would help, I don't know.

As for the CC, it's so frustrating to use and eats so much energy, rather than argue when and how the heat vs cold works or doesn't, I can stand firmly behind my conclusion that prewarming till toasty, then shutting off CC manually, leaving all fans and compressors and heaters off with zero energy consumption and mode set to feet/defog and set for fresh air, not recirculate, drastically improves my range and is comfortable, simple, peaceful, no struggle, and it keeps the car defogged and warm for at least a half hour of driving.

As for the OP, I don't get what the problem is, when I don't care about range I just set the CC to auto after prewarming and I'm happy as a clam, it's just that this eats range and can't be done for the long trips (in excess of 60 milesish).

GaslessInSeattle said:

As for the OP, I don't get what the problem is, when I don't care about range I just set the CC to auto after prewarming and I'm happy as a clam, it's just that this eats range and can't be done for the long trips (in excess of 60 milesish).

Click to expand...

I have edit the original posting, but really, this is not that difficult to comprehend. I don't really care if you are happy to prewarm the car. This thread is not about how to manually operate the HVAC system to get what you want.

I expect the automatic system to automatically spend the energy necessary to get the temperature up or down to the target when it is set on Auto, and that is what this topic is about.

johntaves said:

... This thread is not about...

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Have control issues much? Look, a lot of people don't seem to have your problem. If I set it to auto, I get that temp...it does basically work.