arnis
Posts: 668
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:23 pm

Capacity is not updated by battery management if temperature sensors report temperature below 15 degree Celsius.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Joe6pack
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:57 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 025854

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:04 pm

Why 15 degrees? The car is garaged and while the battery temps are below 59 degrees Fahrenheit (about 15 degrees Celsius) today, it has been pretty mild here in South up until this weekend.
2012 Leaf SL leased October 4th, 2012
Braselton, GA

arnis
Posts: 668
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:13 pm

I suspect Nissan's engineers knew that 1) degradation is really slow at cold temperatures and
2) it is almost impossible to get good data if chemistry is cold (we know that you get less juice
if battery is below optimal temperature).

So if there is 5 battery temp bars it should update once in a while.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Joe6pack
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:57 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 025854

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:33 pm

10-4. We are supposed to be back in the 70's by Friday.
2012 Leaf SL leased October 4th, 2012
Braselton, GA

snguyen4
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:39 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 123456
Location: Garden Grove CA

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:49 pm

Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You

co2112
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 12:30 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 009322
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:27 pm

snguyen4 wrote:Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?


Thank You


Assuming the # of QCs helped balance the pack. Providing better stats than only two months ago. I'd give it another two months. I generally saw changes every 3-5 months rather than month to month. I don't recall the temp but I often hit high temp warning and sometimes power warning when qc 3-6 times in a day. I did several trips from the Sacramento to Bay Area and had to quick charge up to 6 times in a day.
2011 Black SL

2013 Rav4 EV - 2263

Amped
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:46 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 018515
Location: MA

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:34 pm

snguyen4 wrote:Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You



I have a 12 SL. My stats and miles are very close to yours. I think I'm at 45.92 AHR and 38K miles. I also have seen the AHR go up and then come back down. It will go up for a few days and then go down. But, the loss over the month is still about .5 to 1 AHR a month. I've read somewhere on this forum that cell re-balancing occurs and the LEAF will now show the real AHR when it happens. If I misunderstood the cell re-balancing, hopefully, someone will give a better explanation.
2012 SL. Clippercreek CS40-SG2.

Aussie
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Dallas

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:36 am

snguyen4 wrote:Can anyone explain this to me.


Batteries have their peculiarities, however based on the evidence on this forum it seems that quick charging has a temporary effect of increasing reported battery capacity. Users have found that when they stopped QC this 'temporary' capacity went away fairly quickly.

My experience (Dallas TX) has been that summer heat and summer heat alone causes the bulk of battery degradation. I lost a lot of Amp-hours on a new lizard battery over 1 summer with gentle charging overnight to 80%.

35 QC and 52 L2 in 800 miles is quite an effort. What battery temps are you seeing on leafspy? Are you QC'ing multiple times in a row? When I was 'working' my original battery I found the best way to elevate the battery temp was to find an open road, floor it to desired maximum speed, then regen down to ~20MPH. Rinse and repeat. This transfers energy from chemical (battery) to kinetic (momentum) and back, and each time the energy is transferred there are losses in the battery (losses = heat). This is far more effective than QC and open road driving and also reduces time & $$ at the QC.

Battery degradation is far harsher in hotter climates, however you still have one more summer.

snguyen4
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:39 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 123456
Location: Garden Grove CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:54 am

Aussie wrote:
snguyen4 wrote:Can anyone explain this to me.


Thank you for your reply Aussie....

I've been doing a lot of FREE QC. I've been driving the car on the freeway and trying to get it up to 75 MPH and then backing it off to 55-60 MPH and then slamming the pedal again to get it up to 75 MPH and repeat as much as I can. I just started this process in the last few days since the numbers increase. I did manage to get the temp up to 130F and got the turtle when the SOC is at 80% once and the other 2 times I got it to about 110F. What is a good temperature to get it up to with out voiding the warranty? I'm trying very hard but I don't know if I'm doing everything the right way or not. I have six 50 pound sand bags in the car and I'm trying to QC as much as I can. I've been reading a lot of the post on the forum but if anyone with personal experience have any tips that I may have missed please let me know.

Thank You

Aussie
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Dallas

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:21 am

snguyen4 wrote:What is a good temperature to get it up to with out voiding the warranty?


How long is a piece of string? I think the warranty is designed that people can't put it in a paint booth for a couple of days and cook the battery until it melts. You could easily explain having elevated temperatures due to hard driving and multiple quick charges. I'm not aware of anyone on this forum being pinged for driving too hard when it came to battery warranty replacement.

It sounds like you're cooking that battery hard. Based on the evidence on this forum, you will be causing degradation. I suspect that when you back off on the QC the capacity will drop like a stone (but nothing is guaranteed). At least you still have plenty of time.

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