ixnay
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 317056
Location: Beaverton, OR

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:04 pm

I picked up a 2011 Ocean Blue SL with 0,000 miles last month, now 30,716 (so I'm driving double the former owner's monthly average)
According to LeafSpy Pro
166 GIDs
AHrs = 48.18;
SOH - 73.45
After last night's 80% charge, current SOC 78.1 (in part because I was detailing it today and had it powered on for a bit)

Bottom line: with my current efficiency, I can drive around 40 miles, getting 4.1-2/kWh. The GOM says 10 bars and 56 miles (was 58 at end of charge).

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:21 am

RegGuheert on December 14, 2017 wrote:Capacity degradation on our LEAF is now accelerating, with 2.6 Ah lost between 40,000 and 50,000 miles while we only lost 2.2 Ah between 30,000 and 40.000 miles. That is true even though the vehicle was driven those last 10,000 miles over a shorter period of time, so calendar losses during that last period should have been a bit lower.
So now I'm not so sure. As I reported previously, our LEAF has been showing increasing Ah readings recently. Since crossing 50,000 miles on December 7, 2017, at 47.21 Ah, the reported capacity has increased to 48.24 Ah on Februrary 11, 2018, with about 52,000 miles on the odometer.

So, has capacity loss accelerated from 2.2 Ah/10,000 miles (30,000 mi. to 40,000 mi.) to 2.6 Ah/10,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 50,000 mi.) or has it slowed to 1.6 Ah/12,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 52,000 mi.) or both?

Beats me, but I have a new theory about why the capacity has been increasing as of late. I think the BMS may be responding to our efforts to charge the battery to higher SOCs this winter by pressing the timer override button one or more times after the battery has completed its normal charge cycle. We started doing this because the combination of battery degradation (with the associated loss/reduction of regen), new tires and colder temperatures have made my wife's 50-mile commuted quite marginal this winter, even at temperatures of 20 degrees or more. Pressing the timer override button really DOES add more charge to the battery and I think the BMS interprets that as the battery having more capacity.

If that theory is correct, then I suppose when Spring comes around, we will get rapid reported capacity loss due to three different effects: 1) Loss of capacity due to no longer pressing the timer override button, 2) Loss of reported capacity as it warms up (It does that every year!), and 3) Loss of capacity that has been going on all along that has been masked by pressing the button.

We'll see. Perhaps the capacity loss reported over the 50,000- to 60,000-mile interval will shed some light on what is actually happening.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:00 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
RegGuheert on December 14, 2017 wrote:Capacity degradation on our LEAF is now accelerating, with 2.6 Ah lost between 40,000 and 50,000 miles while we only lost 2.2 Ah between 30,000 and 40.000 miles. That is true even though the vehicle was driven those last 10,000 miles over a shorter period of time, so calendar losses during that last period should have been a bit lower.
So now I'm not so sure. As I reported previously, our LEAF has been showing increasing Ah readings recently. Since crossing 50,000 miles on December 7, 2017, at 47.21 Ah, the reported capacity has increased to 48.24 Ah on Februrary 11, 2018, with about 52,000 miles on the odometer.

So, has capacity loss accelerated from 2.2 Ah/10,000 miles (30,000 mi. to 40,000 mi.) to 2.6 Ah/10,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 50,000 mi.) or has it slowed to 1.6 Ah/12,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 52,000 mi.) or both?
Two weeks later, the Ah reading has dropped 1.0 Ah down to 47.28 Ah. It was 80F one day last week, so I guess it decided to head back down.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Valdemar
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:13 pm

From my experience any gains in Ah are usually followed by a sharp drop to even lower levels.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
53.92AHr, SOH 84.5%, 140k miles

9kW Solar

Reddy
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:29 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
RegGuheert on December 14, 2017 wrote:Capacity degradation on our LEAF is now accelerating, with 2.6 Ah lost between 40,000 and 50,000 miles while we only lost 2.2 Ah between 30,000 and 40.000 miles. That is true even though the vehicle was driven those last 10,000 miles over a shorter period of time, so calendar losses during that last period should have been a bit lower.
So now I'm not so sure. As I reported previously, our LEAF has been showing increasing Ah readings recently. Since crossing 50,000 miles on December 7, 2017, at 47.21 Ah, the reported capacity has increased to 48.24 Ah on Februrary 11, 2018, with about 52,000 miles on the odometer.

So, has capacity loss accelerated from 2.2 Ah/10,000 miles (30,000 mi. to 40,000 mi.) to 2.6 Ah/10,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 50,000 mi.) or has it slowed to 1.6 Ah/12,000 miles (40,000 mi. to 52,000 mi.) or both?
Two weeks later, the Ah reading has dropped 1.0 Ah down to 47.28 Ah. It was 80F one day last week, so I guess it decided to head back down.
Reg, I measured my battery yesterday, first time since 11/1/17, and my reading went up slightly from 45.80 (41,700 mi) to 45.91 AHr (44,700 mi). I have increased my driving slightly (750 mi/mo vs. my previous 500 mi/mo normal), so maybe the battery likes being used more. I fully expect to see degradation increase again next month. I recorded about 2 AHr loss last year, and I’m expecting something similar this year. Hopefully it won’t be worse, though the summer could be brutal with more 115 F temps. I think I’m still on target to lose the 4th bar in 2019, so at about 8 years and right around 55,000 mi.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2107
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:37 am

I've finally lost the first bar on my second (lizard) battery. The numbers (per LeafDD):

Months = 28
Miles = 22k
Ahr = 53.42
H = 72.61

Don't know why my "H" is so bad, but I still get decent range (70+ miles @4 mi/kWh).
This is better than my first battery...but only slightly :(
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:38 pm

Attached is the latest chart of amp-hr vrs time. This was a "lizard" battery replaced under warranty;
Battery log 3.14.18.jpg
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2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

opencar
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jun 2011
Location: San Diego Coastal

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:22 am

Stanton wrote:I've finally lost the first bar on my second (lizard) battery. The numbers (per LeafDD):

Months = 28
Miles = 22k
Ahr = 53.42
H = 72.61

Don't know why my "H" is so bad, but I still get decent range (70+ miles @4 mi/kWh).
This is better than my first battery...but only slightly :(


thanks for the info about the Lizard's 1st bar loss point: ~53Ahr. that's 2 Ahr below the original battery's 1st bar loss point; bar loss now seems even more like an arbitrary metric when i compare the two battery performances. sad to hear the improvement over the original battery is only slight at best.
1st bar- 22K, 27mo, Ah=55.29
2nd- 33K, 37mo, Ah=51.54
3rd- 41K, 46mo, Ah=47.47
4th- 49K, 53mo, Ah=43.28
Warranty Lizard- 50K, Oct'15
Jun'16- 56K, Ah=66.14
Aug'17- 70K, 22mo, Ah=59.9
Aug'18- 79K, 36mo, Ah=56.4

ahagge
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:38 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5175
Location: Northridge, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:33 pm

At the risk of being redundantly redundant, I'll re-post the degradation chart of my 2011 SL with a 2015 Lizard battery replaced in 2016 (1st bar dropped on 12/22/17 @ 52.29 AHr):

Image

Interactive version: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... teractive/
Ocean Blue SL-e
Per LEAF Spy as of 06/26/18: 11 bars, 222 GIDs, 53.4 AHr on new (04/30/15) Lizard battery (1st bar lost 12/22/17)
Orig. battery lost 4th bar at 177 GIDs, 43.19 AHr, 44.74 Hx, 65% SOH after 45 months

SageBrush
Posts: 2856
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:49 pm

ahagge wrote: I'll re-post the degradation chart

NIce information, but regarding the Google Docs chart ...

How do you get a scale on both sides of the graph ? I've wanted that for a long time.

Also, I'm not able to open the interactive link.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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