sandeen
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:11 pm

Amped wrote:Lost bar #4 today. 2012 SL. Warranty up on 11/15.


Nick of time! That's an interestingly high Hx. Have you had the software update done? When was the car built?
I'm down to 43.6 Ahr so seeing 43.21 is encouraging, though I wonder if you may have a slightly different battery given the different Hx numbers.
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

Amped
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:51 pm

sandeen wrote:
Amped wrote:Lost bar #4 today. 2012 SL. Warranty up on 11/15.


Nick of time! That's an interestingly high Hx. Have you had the software update done? When was the car built?
I'm down to 43.6 Ahr so seeing 43.21 is encouraging, though I wonder if you may have a slightly different battery given the different Hx numbers.


Build date is Jan 2012. I've had the P3227 update last September. The Ahr has bounced around a bit for months. It was at 44.16 on 9/16, 42.91 on 9/17 and now 43.21 on 9/20. I drove it a lot over the weekend with 4 QCs. Overall, the car has had only 58 QCs.
2012 SL. Clippercreek CS40-SG2. Battery replaced 10/10/17

sandeen
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:04 pm

Amped wrote:It was at 44.16 on 9/16, 42.91 on 9/17 and now 43.21 on 9/20. I drove it a lot over the weekend with 4 QCs. Overall, the car has had only 58 QCs.

It dropped by 1.25Ahr in one day? Crazy.
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

sandeen
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:45 am

I have no idea what it may mean, but Amped's Hx-vs-Ahr is more inline with the 2013 numbers than 2012.
Three other 2011/2012 cars had similarly high Hx values; Newmanji (57.89), Brian0123 (58.44), and sksingh (58.45). In general Ahr-vs-Hx is linear, with the 2013 cars showing more or less the same slope as 2011/2012, but with Hx values higher by about 15 points.
Funky that 4 out of 75 2011/12 4-bar-losers have Hx more in line with 2013 numbers. I think this confirms that Ahr is the value to pay attention to for drop predictions, not Hx.

Image
(p.s. do people find this interesting, or should I stop with the graphs, already?) :)
Last edited by sandeen on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

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Marktm
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:48 am

Being an engineer, I always like graphs!

Such a marked difference in HX between years - like you, I wonder why - is it simply a measurement (or definition) issue, an actual chemistry change, tweaks in battery operating parameters "all the above"? Also wonder if the rate of battery degradation (under very similar operating conditions - likely impossible to assess) is better in the 2013 model batteries or is it just the time factor of using up the battery faster (2013 models) that results in the 4th bar drop. The marked difference and such precise correlation with ahrs suggests an actual battery/system change.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).

Supersleeper
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:08 pm

I'm just now seeing this thread, and I apologize, I should have posted here. My battery was replaced last week by Nissan with 20%/80% owner/dealer payment. I got the car second hand and the original owner tells me it just lost the 9th bar earlier in the year, but don't have exact date or KW details on it. I did take a snapshot of LeafSpy before/after the install at 59k mi:

Before install: AHr=42.42 SOH=64% Hx=43/47%

Amped
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:45 pm

sandeen wrote:I have no idea what it may mean, but Amped's Hx-vs-Ahr is more inline with the 2013 numbers than 2012.
Three other 2011/2012 cars had similarly high Hx values; Newmanji (57.89), Brian0123 (58.44), and sksingh (58.45). In general Ahr-vs-Hx is linear, with the 2013 cars showing more or less the same slope as 2011/2012, but with Hx values higher by about 15 points.
Funky that 4 out of 75 2011/12 4-bar-losers have Hx more in line with 2013 numbers. I think this confirms that Ahr is the value to pay attention to for drop predictions, not Hx.

Image
(p.s. do people find this interesting, or should I stop with the graphs, already?) :)



I've never quite understood Hx and what it represents. But, I love graphs.
2012 SL. Clippercreek CS40-SG2. Battery replaced 10/10/17

sandeen
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:10 pm

Supersleeper wrote:My battery was replaced last week by Nissan with 20%/80% owner/dealer payment. I got the car second hand and the original owner tells me it just lost the 9th bar earlier in the year ...

Wow, so you bought it second hand, already down to 8 bars, and Nissan cut you a deal?
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

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drees
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:37 pm

sandeen wrote:I have no idea what it may mean, but Amped's Hx-vs-Ahr is more inline with the 2013 numbers than 2012.

I suspect that '11-12 LEAFs with a high Hx/AHr ratio don't have the P3227 update. Many people reported a drop in Hx numbers after the update along with a corresponding drop in maximum allowed regenerative braking.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

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RegGuheert
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Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:32 am

drees wrote:
sandeen wrote:I have no idea what it may mean, but Amped's Hx-vs-Ahr is more inline with the 2013 numbers than 2012.

I suspect that '11-12 LEAFs with a high Hx/AHr ratio don't have the P3227 update. Many people reported a drop in Hx numbers after the update along with a corresponding drop in maximum allowed regenerative braking.
Agreed, as I communicated to sandeen a few weeks ago in a PM:
RegGuheert wrote:
sandeen wrote:It's interesting that a couple of them had /much/ higher Hx numbers... not sure what that means.
Likely that is due to not having the P3227 update applied. Take a look at my plot of Capacity and Hx before and after the P3227 update was applied:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14807&start=130#p408657
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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