arnis
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:50 am

Clearly you are overkilling with kids. Just checked graphs and saw -10C as "dead winter" where you live.

Children are totally safe in that temperature outside if appropriate clothes are used. Ask professional opinion.
Not to mention in a car where there is no wind and above freezing temperatures.

It is common mistake parents do but that doesn't mean that must continue.

Also recirculation is possible with AC. Should not fog up too easily.
30 miles with 11 bars is extremely bad result. Either super high speed (not ok below freezing temp)
or extremely slow (2 hours?).
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Durandal
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:06 am

arnis wrote:Also recirculation is possible with AC. Should not fog up too easily.
30 miles with 11 bars is extremely bad result. Either super high speed (not ok below freezing temp)
or extremely slow (2 hours?).


I've yet to get my A/C to kick in when it's cold outside when I have recirculation on, no matter the settings. Is there some way to force it to come on? It just runs the heat, but no A/C according to LeafSpy. If the temperatures are in the 60's, I can get the car to run heat and cool simultaneously, and usually not by choice.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:23 am

arnis wrote:Clearly you are overkilling with kids. Just checked graphs and saw -10C as "dead winter" where you live.

Children are totally safe in that temperature outside if appropriate clothes are used. Ask professional opinion.
Not to mention in a car where there is no wind and above freezing temperatures.

It is common mistake parents do but that doesn't mean that must continue.


That it is a mistake to keep my kids comfortable instead of simply safe is your personal opinion. I don't appreciate the implication that I'm doing something wrong here. I don't need more than 25 miles most days, so I'm never pressed for range. Why am I need free to use some of that energy to keep my family comfortable?

arnis wrote:Also recirculation is possible with AC. Should not fog up too easily.


Thanks to another member here, I do have the heater kill switch installed. Without it, what you are describing is not possible on a stock 2012 Leaf. The car will always run the heater if the temperature is below 60F.


arnis wrote:30 miles with 11 bars is extremely bad result. Either super high speed (not ok below freezing temp)
or extremely slow (2 hours?).


30 miles includes a combination of highway driving and short trips (with cool down periods between them). The posted speed limit is 65MPH. I never drive faster than 70MPH. That's hardly "super high speed". And again, I don't need range, it simply uses more electricity to get where I am going. Please explain to me why that is "not ok"? I bought the car to drive it. That includes on the highway. Restricting myself to only side streets just to save a few kWh is not something I feel compelled to do.

I hear what you are saying, but again I don't appreciate the accusations of doing something wrong. The Leaf is far more efficient than any car I've previously owned, and I am driving it relatively conservatively to boot.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

arnis
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:29 am

65mph on snow or ice or slush is no ok. US is not shining with safety on roads. Not sure it is even average.
Speed limit is for good weather, not bad weather (except dynamic signs which are not popular in US).

If you keep your kids (and yourself) always at "comfortable" you get used to that comfort which will bad
in many ways in the future. Especially for children. It is like pampering. But physical (immune system).
Offtopic anyway. I would recommend to read literature or consult with specialists - don't assume you're right
(especially if you are not professional in that area). Good parent is not the one who keeps their children
comfortable and give them candy all the time.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Amped
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:46 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 018515
Location: MA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:48 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Amped wrote:
Valdemar wrote:
Chances are you will miss out on the new battery bingo unless you start "work" on your pack soon. It took me 8 months and 11k miles to lose the 9th bar in SoCal that included the hottest months here, it'll likely take you longer in MA so you'll be cutting it close to 11/2017 when your capacity warranty expires.



If it happens, it would be a welcome bonus. I bought a 4 year old nice car for cheap and the range I'm getting is more than enough for my 30 mile round trip commute. I also have charging options near work. So, no worries if it doesn't happen.


My 11-bar 2012 Leaf has a hard time driving 30 miles in the dead of winter with the heat blasting. Living in MA, I assume your winters are similar to Syracuse. I have to run the heat because I have kids in car seats (i.e. heated seats are useless to them). If you don't need heat and/or can preheat the car while plugged in, your commute will be much easier. How "near work" are those charging options? Can you walk to your work and leave the car plugged in?


Winters are the same here. I've been using heat, seat and steering heat as well as the radio and still have about 30 miles of range when I get home. I don't take the highway as that always kills the range.

Chargers are not close enough, for my liking, to walk. But, close enough to charge at lunch or after work. I've done that quite a bit in November. But, realized I only really saved like 10-15 dollars of my electric bill for the hours I sat. There's also a QC charger if I ever wanted to pay for it (which I don't).

I'd love to qualify a for a new battery before 11/15/17. But, if I don't, I still love the car and will be able to charge if the range drops low.
2012 SL. Clippercreek CS40-SG2.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:13 pm

arnis wrote:65mph on snow or ice or slush is no ok. US is not shining with safety on roads. Not sure it is even average.
Speed limit is for good weather, not bad weather (except dynamic signs which are not popular in US).

If you keep your kids (and yourself) always at "comfortable" you get used to that comfort which will bad
in many ways in the future. Especially for children. It is like pampering. But physical (immune system).
Offtopic anyway. I would recommend to read literature or consult with specialists - don't assume you're right
(especially if you are not professional in that area). Good parent is not the one who keeps their children
comfortable and give them candy all the time.


I never said anything about road conditions. In Syracuse, we take care of the roads. 65MPH in the winter is perfectly safe most of the time. During a storm I slow down. The biggest danger is having the wrong tire (I.e. all seasons rather than proper snow tires).

The rest of your statements I'm not touching. That's way off topic anyway and had nothing to do with cars at all, let alone capacity/range of 2011/2012 Leaf's.

My only point here is that driving my car in a manner similar to any other car on the road, and therefore how someone picking up a used one for the first time might expect to, can easily yield only 30 miles of range in the winter.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

peakay
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:48 am

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:55 am

Valdemar wrote:
peakay wrote:Ah, good question. Coastal southern California. Doesn't get too hot here but we can start quick charging more. :-)


Took me about 7 months and 10,000 miles from February to October to get to 8 bars from where you're today, or close, but hotter inland LA area. I think you have a good chance to make it given there is more one year left, but QC as often as you can, the sooner you start the better, drive fast and hard to keep the pack warm.


Thanks. It dropped to 9 bars a couple weeks ago but I haven't checked back on leafspy. based on this and a 1/8/2018 date, do you think i should be in good shape? We have about 31k miles on it at this time.

Valdemar
Posts: 2340
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:36 pm

peakay wrote:
Valdemar wrote:
peakay wrote:Ah, good question. Coastal southern California. Doesn't get too hot here but we can start quick charging more. :-)


Took me about 7 months and 10,000 miles from February to October to get to 8 bars from where you're today, or close, but hotter inland LA area. I think you have a good chance to make it given there is more one year left, but QC as often as you can, the sooner you start the better, drive fast and hard to keep the pack warm.


Thanks. It dropped to 9 bars a couple weeks ago but I haven't checked back on leafspy. based on this and a 1/8/2018 date, do you think i should be in good shape? We have about 31k miles on it at this time.


Probably but not guaranteed so I wouldn't just sit and wait, quick charge it often and drive hard, keep it fully charged and park in the sun as much as you can.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
60.5AHr, SOH 94%, 105k miles
9kW Solar

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11443
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:15 pm

fbnella wrote:Thanks for the tips. When I spoke to a dealer here in town, they told me that the car would need to show a record of a yearly battery check for it to qualify for warranty coverage. Is this true? It was purchased used and I've no idea if that was done, or needed. The carfax shows it being serviced but isn't specific.

Thanks again, for any insight.



absolutely NOT.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 6190 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnis
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:48 am

No. Battery check is for users not manufacturer. Not doing oil change in ICE vehicle also does not void the warranty for the whole vehicle.
Only for parts that can be ruined due to insufficient service (oil change).
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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