cwerdna
Posts: 8283
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:03 pm

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 620968334/ is a report of someone down 7 bars (5 remaining) at 68.4K miles on an '11.

As I posted at viewtopic.php?p=505534#p505534, I think I've seen another 7 bar loser in TX before (can't find the FB post) and I quoted someone else who found a 7 bar loser.

I found http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=489844#p489844 on another 7 bar loser.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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Reddy
Posts: 1539
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:11 pm

cwerdna wrote:https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1757297620968334/ is a report of someone down 7 bars (5 remaining) at 68.4K miles on an '11.
So much for great battery stats from Seattle. I'm starting to think that my babying the battery has actually helped my 2011. However, I'm still under 50,000 mi, so perhaps that helps.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:58 pm

Reddy wrote:So much for great battery stats from Seattle. I'm starting to think that my babying the battery has actually helped my 2011. However, I'm still under 50,000 mi, so perhaps that helps.
Our LEAF's VIN is about 900 before yours and we have slightly more capacity remaining with 10,000 more miles on the odometer. It beats me why that would since the climate is a bit warmer here.

Capacity degradation on our LEAF is now accelerating, with 2.6 Ah lost between 40,000 and 50,000 miles while we only lost 2.2 Ah between 30,000 and 40.000 miles. That is true even though the vehicle was driven those last 10,000 miles over a shorter period of time, so calendar losses during that last period should have been a bit lower.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Reddy
Posts: 1539
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:12 am

RegGuheert wrote:
Reddy wrote:So much for great battery stats from Seattle. I'm starting to think that my babying the battery has actually helped my 2011. However, I'm still under 50,000 mi, so perhaps that helps.
Our LEAF's VIN is about 900 before yours and we have slightly more capacity remaining with 10,000 more miles on the odometer. It beats me why that would since the climate is a bit warmer here.

Capacity degradation on our LEAF is now accelerating, with 2.6 Ah lost between 40,000 and 50,000 miles while we only lost 2.2 Ah between 30,000 and 40.000 miles. That is true even though the vehicle was driven those last 10,000 miles over a shorter period of time, so calendar losses during that last period should have been a bit lower.
Well, we are actually in the hottest part of WA, with several weeks per year above 100F routinely. We even had a stint of 110-115F in June one year. However, that said, my battery has always been on the "low" side, even in the early days. When I did a 100 mi trip, posting my stats, I remember Tony Williams commenting on my low numbers. My delivery was delayed about 6 mo (through the summer) due to Fukushima, so it is possible that it sat longer than it should have. :cry: Also, I am a low mileage and in-town user, charging primarily with L1. I think that those things may conspire to depress the numbers. The worst part is the lack of winter regen (just when you need more range). I've added some additional mid-day and evening trips and have actually had to charge mid-day a few times this winter. It's not a big deal, but I'm now glad that I had the EVSE upgrade done. Unless Nissan comes through with a VERY LOW COST replacement battery in the 2018-2020 time frame, I will definitely dump this vehicle for something (Model 3) with a faster charger, larger battery, and new technology.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:51 pm

Reddy wrote:Well, we are actually in the hottest part of WA, with several weeks per year above 100F routinely. We even had a stint of 110-115F in June one year.
O.K., that explains it! We used to get 100F around here many summers, but that's not happening any more. It's probably been five years (2012) since we've seen 100F.
Reddy wrote:However, that said, my battery has always been on the "low" side, even in the early days. When I did a 100 mi trip, posting my stats, I remember Tony Williams commenting on my low numbers.
Our battery capacity is dominated by a single cell pair (#37). This pair drops out first and the effect is much more dominant in wintertime. In summertime, we do not really see the difference. If it weren't for that cell pair, we would do quite a bit better in the wintertime.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

cwerdna
Posts: 8283
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:19 am

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 885581945/ has dashboard pics of a '12 Leaf imported to Colombo, Sri Lanka from Japan which at 176K km shows it's down to 3 (!) capacity bars, So, it's a 9 bar (!) loser. I think this is a record for me, so far. I don't recall hearing of any that are worse than this, yet.

If https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombo#Climate is accurate, that is a pretty unkind climate to Leaf batteries.

I assume the car spent more time in Sri Lanka than Japan.

If we ever seen a Leaf down to 0 capacity bars, it'll be interesting to hear how it behaves in terms of regen (presumably none or next to none), LBW, VLBW, power bubbles, how fast it can charge on L2 and CHAdeMO.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 8283
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:47 pm

Reddy wrote:
cwerdna wrote:https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1757297620968334/ is a report of someone down 7 bars (5 remaining) at 68.4K miles on an '11.
So much for great battery stats from Seattle. I'm starting to think that my babying the battery has actually helped my 2011. However, I'm still under 50,000 mi, so perhaps that helps.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 948457601/ has a post of someone in Woodinville, WA (which is near Seattle), that's down 6 bars after 6.5 years. and 110K miles.

mbutter at viewtopic.php?p=515596#p515596 mentions being down 6 bars on their '11. They seem to be in TX.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13281
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:29 am

cwerdna wrote:
Reddy wrote:
cwerdna wrote:https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1757297620968334/ is a report of someone down 7 bars (5 remaining) at 68.4K miles on an '11.
So much for great battery stats from Seattle. I'm starting to think that my babying the battery has actually helped my 2011. However, I'm still under 50,000 mi, so perhaps that helps.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 948457601/ has a post of someone in Woodinville, WA (which is near Seattle), that's down 6 bars after 6.5 years. and 110K miles.

mbutter at viewtopic.php?p=515596#p515596 mentions being down 6 bars on their '11. They seem to be in TX.


Poorly managed charging habits easily overcomes any so called climate advantage.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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RegGuheert
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1.33 Ah increase in reported capacity of 9-bar MY2011 LEAF

Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:20 am

RegGuheert on August 28, 2017 wrote:Our 2011 LEAF lost its third capacity bar on Friday, August 25, 2017. Wife was driving, so I do not have a picture from LeafSpy, but I estimate the following numbers:

46,100 miles
47.47 Ah
72% SOH
51.60% Hx

Our LEAF was manufactured in June 2011.
As I posted back in August, our LEAF dropped its 10th bar on August 27, 2017, right at a very typical level of 47.5 Ah. The reported capacity continued to drop through the Fall with the lowest reading of 46.88 Ah coming on October 7, 2017. To me, this seemed like a rather rapid drop in capacity.

But the next time I took a reading was on November 13, 2017, when the car reported capacity of 47.48 Ah: a 0.6 Ah increase. Then on November 16, 2017, it was back down to 47.23 Ah and on December 7, 2017, it was at 47.21. I figured it had settled in for the winter since most winters I see no change in the reported capacity of the car.

That was not to be. On January 18, 2018, the car reported 47.39 Ah. Then the next day it reported 47.62 Ah, which is above the threshold for the drop of the 10th bar. (But there is hysteresis, so the bar has not come back.)

Skip ahead to yesterday and now the car is reporting 48.21 Ah. That is an entire Ah higher than what was reported two months earlier on December 7 and 1.33 Ah higher than four months earlier on October 7.

So, is it real? I will say "Yes and no." The pack in our LEAF has always been limited by cell-pair #37, which is weaker than all the rest. This effect is particularly noticeable in the wintertime. But on January 17 I forgot to press the timer override button and ended up draining the battery down to a reported SOC of 5.9%. Cell-pair #37 was 328 mV below the highest cell-pair at that point, which was not a surprise. But I have to think that the BMS now feels that it has more capacity than it previously thought it had.

All this to say that I normally see no change, up or down, in reported capacity between about December 1 and March 1. This rise of 1.33 Ah has been entirely unexpected.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

arnis
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:28 pm

My car had 90-91% for more than 6 months and raised back to 98% for winter.
In about 4 weeks when battery reaches 15*C (5th bar) it will start updating again.

Just before Leaf dies seeing 350mV difference is absolutely normal.
Likely even more for older Leafs than 2014.
2.729 and 3.075 for mine.
I've done these discharges for like 30-50 times.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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