DarthPuppy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:18 pm

I'll trust your math on that. So my rough guess is looking a little long. Hopefully by then battery replacements will be a common, affordable option to extend the life of these cars. But I haven't seen enough indications to support that it will. :cry:
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

alozzy
Posts: 1110
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:52 pm

The useful life of the LEAF batteries is almost totally determined by the climate you live in, assuming you don't abuse it with bad charging habits.

Most 2013 LEAFs in the PNW have around 85% SOH after 5 years (that is, 2013s with the better battery chemistry). So, there's a good chance that the pack won't drop down to 8 capacity bars until at least 2023 and maybe even as far out as 2025. I'll be happy with that, provided the battery pack can be responsibly recycled/reused at the end of its useful life. I'm sure I'll want a longer range EV by that time anyways, so hopefully I'll be able to upgrade to a used Bolt, Niro, Kona, Soul, etc with a 60 kWh (or thereabouts) pack for a reasonable cost.

One concern I have is that CHADEMO will be deprecated by then, which would make the LEAF much less useful. However, hopefully a reasonably priced CHADEMO to CCS adapter will be available by that time.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

DarthPuppy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:40 pm

alozzy wrote:One concern I have is that CHADEMO will be deprecated by then, which would make the LEAF much less useful. However, hopefully a reasonably priced CHADEMO to CCS adapter will be available by that time.


Excellent point. Is anyone working on creating one of these adapters? That could really help prolong the useful life of these cars, especially the ones in favorable climates.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

powersurge
Posts: 1056
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:22 am

cwerdna wrote:I've never had to spend $7K to $8.5K to replace some item or performance some maintenance on a car that has hit 6.5 or 7 years old, that also has little value. Besides the other issues already mentioned, some expensive out of warranty items could fail like the brake master cylinder (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21203), heater or on-board charger or something with the stereo head unit.


I agree that the battery replacement price increase is making it a less attractive choice.... However, This appears a sneaky way for the car companies to get their older EVs off the road, like they did with the GM EV1s.. My feeling is that I (me) will decide how long I will own my Leaf...

I bought My "S" version Leaf to save the $5000 or so (instead of getting the SL), and got the $7500 from the government. For me, I already have the money saved to replace the battery and drive the car to 200K miles.... Also, in a few years, if most Leaf owners junk their cars, an original Leaf will have a high resale value as a collectible.. For those over the age of 40, think of all the cars you have owned that you are sorry you sold!!

Dooglas
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:18 pm

SageBrush wrote:A definite improvement over the first gen LEAFs if the simple calc holds true but still no where near the level of a garden variety .............Tesla.

Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced. All vehicle alternatives are a choice - and that choice is not nearly so simplistic as you are suggesting.
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

SageBrush
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:09 pm

Dooglas wrote:Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced.

There you have it: you spent more, for a range limited LEAF. If you are like most people you supplement the LEAF with another car. THAT is why the choice is hard to justify.

The Tesla value is in not having to keep an ICE around, and having tech that will last a long time.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:10 pm

Dooglas wrote:Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced.

How much did you pay for the first LEAF and how long until you bought another ?
How much did you pay for the second LEAF and how long do you think it will be until it does not meet your present needs ?
What other cars do you keep to supplement the LEAF ?

The Tesla value is in not having to keep an ICE around, and having tech that will last a long time.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 8212
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:48 pm

Dooglas wrote:Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days. I am on my second Leaf now. If I decide to go on to a third Leaf - I will have invested little more in 3 Leafs than in one Tesla 3 as currently priced.

Cheapest 3 you can buy is $49K right now. Go to https://3.tesla.com/model3/design. Only 1 color (black) is included at that price. All the other colors cost extra.

I would not waste the $3K on "Full Self-Driving Capability" at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if does not reach SAE level 5 (https://web.archive.org/web/20161120142 ... riving.pdf) within the typical lifespan of the car. It may not even get to level 4 within that time, unless Tesla ends up collaborating with and using technology and software from someone else who is further ahead (e.g. Cruise Automation or Waymo).

Cheapest S is $77K + $1.2K doc and dest fee: https://www.tesla.com/models/design.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

garsh
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:27 am
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:28 am

Dooglas wrote:Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days.
Model 3 starts at $49k currently, but the $35k version should be available early next year.

I paid $35,200 for my 2012 Nissan Leaf SV ($38,700 in 2018 USD). A 2018 Leaf SL starts at $36,200. It's going to be hard to justify a new Leaf over a new Model 3 at these prices. But for basic transportation, the $29,900 Leaf S might make sense for some people.
I am on my second Leaf now.

According to your signature (2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30), you appear to lease your Leafs. If it does what you need it to do, and the price is right, then this makes sense to me. I definitely wish I could go back in time and lease instead of buy my Leaf. I tend to keep my cars for a long time. The car I traded in for my Leaf was 13 years old. The Leaf just isn't going to last that long because the battery degradation is too terrible. But that's not much of an issue when you're leasing.
2012 Black SV, 7 bars, 100,000 miles

cwerdna
Posts: 8212
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: I've joined the 7 bars club

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:11 am

garsh wrote:
Dooglas wrote:Remind me of the out-the-door price for a Tesla S or a Tesla 3 these days.
Model 3 starts at $49k currently, but the $35k version should be available early next year.

"$35K" version was originally supposed to be available to order Nov 2017 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170731003 ... ations-faq). Obviously, that still hasn't happened. Right now, https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#battery says "Standard Battery available in 3-6 months". Let's see...

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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