ydnas7
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am

EPA range guides and differences between cars

Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:35 am

Image
Both the Nissan and Honda were average of driving modes (ie econ and sport)
RAV4 EV was average of 80% and 100% charge
BMW 1 series was average of 2 different tyres

Ford Focus, Mitsu i-MiEV, Toyota Scion, Tesla S, Smart Fortwo seem all at full charge only.

the Toyota Scion had laughable range, the i-Miev > 50% more range than the Toyota! (38km vs 62km)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

adric22
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Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:16 am

This is a helpful chart to have available. I'd like to see it include PHEV all-electric-range as well. That way for people who are mulling their options for a daily commuter, they can see which vehicles fall into their range needs.

I'd also like to see it represented with a bar-graph, to make comparisons between the different cars more easily. And what would be more interesting is to have the EPA range in one shade, but change the color to branch all the way out to the max range achievable, as well as another color showing the worst-case-scenario range.

I'd be happy to create it myself, but I'm not entirely sure of some of the numbers for best/worst case scenario on some of the cars.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

adric22
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Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:58 am

Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.

Image
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

kovalb
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Delivery Date: 09 Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix

Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:22 am

The LEAF's EPA range number is only 75 miles is because they are averaging the range at 80% SOC and 100% SOC. How is that for confusing potential EV buyers? They are doing that for LEAF and Tesla because they both offer long life modes. I disagree with EPA's logic. It would make much more sense for them to publish the 100% range. If someone wants to know how far they would go on 80% just calculate it. Now the range numbers are going to be apples and oranges when customers try to compare.

I calculate the 100% range to be 83 miles (75/0.90). Nissan says it is 84 miles.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082456_2013-nissan-leaf-75-mile-range-anticipated-in-new-test-by-epa
2015 LEAF SV Pearl White
My sixth Nissan LEAF
Nissan Employee (NTCNA-AZ). Opinions expressed here are my own.

ydnas7
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am

Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:32 am

When ranked by EPA range, the LEASED Leaf is very good, the bought Leaf is so so.

Image

Nissan considers 100% to be acceptable in regards to their leases (and warranties), and Nissan is intentional about making LEASEs very good value.

(* 2013 LEAF is not yet in EPA FEGuide, so is estimated)
(* the 100% and 80% for LEAF and RAV 4 are also estimated)

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TonyWilliams
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Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:09 am

kovalb wrote:The LEAF's EPA range number is only 75 miles is because they are averaging the range at 80% SOC and 100% SOC. How is that for confusing potential EV buyers? They are doing that for LEAF and Tesla because they both offer long life modes. I disagree with EPA's logic. It would make much more sense for them to publish the 100% range. If someone wants to know how far they would go on 80% just calculate it. Now the range numbers are going to be apples and oranges when customers try to compare.

I calculate the 100% range to be 83 miles (75/0.90). Nissan says it is 84 miles.


All year LEAFs can absolutely go 84 miles, and if the EPA only wants one number, that should be it. Nobody is charging to 90%, so why we would want 90% data is beyond me (the 75 EPA miles being the average between 80% and 100% five cycle performance).

Having said that, there's little likelihood that the typical 3 year lease LEAF will have 84 miles of range in a five cycle test. Of all the cars, non-climate controlled Li battery cars are less likely to maintain capacity over the temperature extremes seen here in the USA.

75 is probably a fair number for the typical consumer.

Herm
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Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:14 am

The BYD range data is out?

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evnow
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Leaf Number: 303
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Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:32 am

Nice chart. Thanks. Stickied.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

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evnow
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Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:54 am

adric22 wrote:Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.

There really isn't a minimum gauranteed range. If you switch on the heater and let it sit, the range is zero ;-)

Here is what I'd like EPA / Manufacturer to publish. 9 numbers in all.

- City/Highway range (like they do now, but at 100% charge only)
- City/Highway Summer range (with A/C on, 100 F outside, 70 F inside)
- City/Highway Winter range (withe heater on, 32 F outside, 70 F inside)

They need to revise their highway cycle. Make it average about 65 or 70 mph.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1457
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: EPA range guides and differences between cars

Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:17 pm

evnow wrote:
adric22 wrote:Here's a chart like I was thinking.. I could fill this chart in and revise it more if people like it. The Leaf is an example where I could show minimum guaranteed range, EPA range, and maximum range.

There really isn't a minimum gauranteed range. If you switch on the heater and let it sit, the range is zero ;-)

Here is what I'd like EPA / Manufacturer to publish. 9 numbers in all.

- City/Highway range (like they do now, but at 100% charge only)
- City/Highway Summer range (with A/C on, 100 F outside, 70 F inside)
- City/Highway Winter range (withe heater on, 32 F outside, 70 F inside)

They need to revise their highway cycle. Make it average about 65 or 70 mph.


Mostly agreed, but for winter range, let's be real and make the temperature 0F ;)
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

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