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snoltor

New member
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1
Thinking of buying an EV, been thinking of it for a long time. Just started test driving some of the models out there, considering the Leaf. Will use it for my daily commute during the week. Most important question is will it do the job for me throughout the year? My daily commute is 50 miles, 80% on a major highway. Pretty much flat terrain in the Sacramento area. High temps in the summer 105+, cold temps this winter down to around 28F, but more often in the 40's with windy rain. Will the Leaf get me to and from work every day throughout the year without any problems? I'm currently driving a Prius for this commute and my max and min MPG figures vary by 20%, with a high of 58 MPG and a low of 46, and MPG totally dependent on weather. If I assume 75 mile range for the Leaf (I drive easy, no lead foot), would it be reasonable to estimate I'd be getting a range of around 65+ miles in the winter months during bad driving conditions and upwards of 80 miles under ideal conditions? Or is that overly optimistic? I have to pick up my kids on the way home from work and don't want to ever worry about running out of charge on the way home during the cold, windy, rainy days we get during the winter months here in northern CA.

Thanks for any feedback!
 
I know you mentioned Sacramento but can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

You prepared to drive slow on the highway when you need to maximize your range? I've noticed people drive very fast in your area, the times I've been there/passed thru. See Tony's range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If you're going to get a Leaf, I suggest you lease. AFAIK, it gets pretty hot there so I'd be concerned about battery degradation and the new 5 year/60K mile battery capacity warranty (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) possibly not helping you.

Fortunately, you have a # of EV choices being in CA, like the Ford Focus Electric or Rav4 EV (expensive to lease but prices are much more attractive w/the ~$9.3K to 10K Toyota incentive).
 
cwerdna said:
If you're going to get a Leaf, I suggest you lease. AFAIK, it gets pretty hot there so I'd be concerned about battery degradation and the new 5 year/60K mile battery capacity warranty (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) possibly not helping you.
+1
I consider a 50-mile drive to be very routine without much planning, even in wintertime down to 30F or so. But your battery will likely degrade faster in Sacramento than I see here. Windy rain in 40F conditions will be a challenge, but shouldn't be terrible. Definitely get an SV or SL to get a heat pump.
cwerdna said:
Fortunately, you have a # of EV choices being in CA, like the Ford Focus Electric or Rav4 EV (expensive to lease but prices are much more attractive w/the ~$9.3K to 10K Toyota incentive).
Agreed you should also look at these.
 
Slightly off topic response... but i have to giggle everytime someone describes 30F as "winter" :mrgreen: ..... this coming from a Minnesotan... ;)
 
I've done 65 mi (winter temps) many times in my 2011, but not as my daily commute. With a 2013 Leaf and the new heat pump, it should be even easier. You can go farther than 50 mi, even below freezing, but you will need to keep the speeds down. See my signature line.
 
Just today.... Big winter storm in MN.

Charged to just under 100% (said 100 but charger still active). 28F, Snowing, poor traction, lights on, heat on, wipers intermittent. 57 mile trip ended with 23% remaining. Over 2 hours on the road.

Although this was 90% highway, the speeds were quite slow because of the conditions. Average for the trip was about 25MPH. A lot of stop and go, creeping at times. 2013 SL
 
MarvGordon said:
Just today.... Big winter storm in MN.

Charged to just under 100% (said 100 but charger still active). 28F, Snowing, poor traction, lights on, heat on, wipers intermittent. 57 mile trip ended with 23% remaining. Over 2 hours on the road.

Although this was 90% highway, the speeds were quite slow because of the conditions. Average for the trip was about 25MPH. A lot of stop and go, creeping at times. 2013 SL

Also in Minnesota...same storm, 2013 SV. I have a shorter commute of about 18 miles and arrived at work with 68% charge. GOM says 59 miles remaining. It was early enough where I was still driving 55mph on the freeways. Pretty much worst case....driving through snow/slush, lights, heater, defrost and wipers on.

My experience so far has been about 1% point equates to about 0.9 to 0.95 miles...and that is in 30-40 deg conditions. Longest I have driven on one charge was just over 62 miles. Ended with 34% battery remaining and the GOM telling me I have 31 miles to go. This was a pretty even mix of freeway (63mph) and secondary highway (45-55mph) driving.
 
My winters sound very similar to yours. Your summers are definitely hotter though. That means your range will be greater in the summer than I enjoy in Atlanta (hotter air=less dense=less friction=better economy). I too have a 50 mile commute, 80% highway. I travel at 70mph, and when I am done commuting have 20 miles of local driving range remaining for evening errands/etc. I have a 2012 and use the seat heating and steering wheel heating in winter, only occasionally using the energy-sink heating system. If I were you, I'd do the lease deal, because you're totally covered range wise...the battery capacity shouldn't start to affect your required range til after the lease ends. In ATL, the models indicate I will get at least 50 miles of range for a decade, and I'm driving mine 17k miles a year. Welcome to the future.
 
You should also take into account expected battery degradation during the time you plan to own (or lease) the Leaf. For our best guess on capacity loss see the Wiki:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sacramento comes in slightly better than the Los Angeles Civic Center in terms of the battery aging, so you should be OK overall. However, battery capacity loss is front loaded, so expect to lose about 8% of capacity in the first year.
 
Stoaty said:
Sacramento comes in slightly better than the Los Angeles Civic Center in terms of the battery aging, so you should be OK overall.

Which is weird because Sacramento gets considerably warmer than most of LA County.
 
RonDawg said:
Stoaty said:
Sacramento comes in slightly better than the Los Angeles Civic Center in terms of the battery aging, so you should be OK overall.
Which is weird because Sacramento gets considerably warmer than most of LA County.
Yes, but if you look at the Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet, you will see that it also gets a lot colder in Sacramento. Here is the Weatherspark data:

http://weatherspark.com/averages/31549/Sacramento-California-United-States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://weatherspark.com/averages/29963/Los-Angeles-California-United-States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Los Angeles has 54% cool, 6% cold = 60% cool or cold

Sacramento has 44 % cool, 26% cold = 70% cool or cold

The both have about 9.5% hot.

Sacramento has 6% of the time very hot, Los Angeles has 2%.
 
Stoaty said:
RonDawg said:
Stoaty said:
Sacramento comes in slightly better than the Los Angeles Civic Center in terms of the battery aging, so you should be OK overall.
Which is weird because Sacramento gets considerably warmer than most of LA County.
Yes, but if you look at the Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet, you will see that it also gets a lot colder in Sacramento. Here is the Weatherspark data:

http://weatherspark.com/averages/31549/Sacramento-California-United-States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://weatherspark.com/averages/29963/Los-Angeles-California-United-States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Los Angeles has 54% cool, 6% cold = 60% cool or cold

Sacramento has 44 % cool, 26% cold = 70% cool or cold

The both have about 9.5% hot.

Sacramento has 6% of the time very hot, Los Angeles has 2%.

But I thought it was time spent in the "hot" and "very hot" conditions that permanently affects battery capacity, and that cold conditions only temporarily affects it.

The fact that Sacramento stays in the "very hot" range 3x as long as LA does, and about the same in the "hot" range, should mean more battery degradation in Sac than LA. The fact that LA spends 10% more time in the "comfortable/warm" range than Sacramento should not be nearly as significant as the differences in time each spends in "very hot."

Sacramento also has an average summer daily high in the summer of "above 84" vs LA's "above 80", and that on the hottest day of the year, Sacramento averages 92/59 vs LA's 83/65.
 
RonDawg said:
But I thought it was time spent in the "hot" and "very hot" conditions that permanently affects battery capacity, and that cold conditions only temporarily affects it.
You are right... but from the perspective of preserving battery capacity, the colder the better. That means that more time spent at cooler temperatures gives Sacramento an advantage over Los Angeles, which (mathematically at least) offsets the slightly higher temperatures in the summer.
 
I bought a used leaf 2011 (006865) from France three weeks ago. It had 10 bars and 60.300 km=37.477 miles. Now I have 9 bars and 60811 km=37.794 miles. I live in south Finland in north Europe. Temperature varies around 0 degrees Celsius this week. I have a plan to wait until I have 4 bars left. Typical trip is 30 km=19 miles. I am charging only to 80% and with 2,2 kW charger. It was bought as a new on 22.08.2011 in France.
 
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