Wheel size (steel/Al and 16"/17") vs. range?

Hi all,

We are negotiating a new 2014 lease to replace our 2012. Here around Seattle the dealers seem almost out of S, esp. with charge package. My trim of choice (SV+charge/LED) also seems to be rare. But there are plenty of SL's They are offering them for almost the same price.

I've read the trim difference specifications, and one of the potentially big ones w.r.t. range seems to be the wheels.

I'd assume that aluminum wheels would translate to better range than steel of the same size, being lighter (that's the SV vs. the S). But the SL has aluminum wheels with larger diameter. How would that translate into range? Has anyone looked into the effect of these 3 wheel types on the Leaf's range?

Thanks!

Assaf

Steel wheels are great for regen, terrible for acceleration. Given that there is a loss in efficiency, lighter wheels will always be better. This is even more important on ICE, where there is no regen.

16" vs 17":
I haven't seen any specifics on this, so a lot of it is speculation. A larger wheel means the gearing has to change, or the car has a higher top speed. Since wind resistance is your nemesis, a higher top speed is useless. With a gearing adjustment to match the rotation speed of the smaller 16" wheel, there should be no significant change in performance.

FWIW: Nissan makes the same claims with all 3 wheels.

In the case of the Leaf, they use a lower profile tire on the 17" wheels so the diameter and circumference is about the same as with the 16" wheels.

mctom987 said:

A larger wheel means the gearing has to change, or the car has a higher top speed.

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TomT said:

In the case of the Leaf, they use a lower profile tire on the 17" wheels so the diameter and circumference is about the same as with the 16" wheels.

mctom987 said:

A larger wheel means the gearing has to change, or the car has a higher top speed.

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So the pin the cost on the consumer, and call it a cosmetic upgrade

Mostly, but it does include Michelin tires in place of the Ecrapias... Though they are low-end Michelins...

mctom987 said:

So the pin the cost on the consumer, and call it a cosmetic upgrade

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Actually, just checked it.

16": 205/55R16
17" 215/50R17

The 16" has a 1985.2mm circumference
The 17" has a 2032mm circumference

That's 46.8mm difference, 1.84". This isn't a huge difference, but it's significant.

A new tire typically has 10/32" of tread, and needs to be replaced at 2/32" remaining. 8/32" of wearable tread, 1/4". This is a tread depth wear of 6.35mm, which comes out to 19.95mm circumference loss on a new tire, less than half the difference of the 16" vs 17" tires.

Basically, a fully worn 17" tire is still larger than a brand new 16" tire. If the gearing is the same, speed/acceleration won't be effected much, but the speedometer and increasingly odometer are going to be inaccurate.

Considering that the Leaf Speedometer is fast, it would be an improvement... :lol:

And it may be that they change the speedometer/odometer calibration on the SL to make up for the slight difference... It is all electronic so easy to do in production... The transfer case gearing remains the same on all cars.

mctom987 said:

If the gearing is the same, speed/acceleration won't be effected much, but the speedometer and increasingly odometer are going to be inaccurate.

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TomT said:

Considering that the Leaf Speedometer is fast, it would be an improvement... :lol:

And it may be that they change the speedometer/odometer calibration on the SL to make up for the slight difference... It is all electronic so easy to do in production... The transfer case gearing remains the same on all cars.

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Potentially a result of offering two tire sizes?

Either way, you can adjust the speedometer in the maintenance menu, but this was more about the range and economic impact, which has nothing to do with an accurate speedometer (other than potentially misrepresenting the range driven)

FWIW, you can no longer buy (after market) Michelin Energy Savers that are on the "SL" trim package. This came up the other day when I was buying tires for another car: the same tires (Michelin Defenders) that I put on my Leaf. And to think at one point I wanted to put the Energy Savers on my Leaf to boost my m/kW (the Defenders take a 5-10% hit on range depending on age); now I'm glad I got the Defenders after all as they ride/wear well.

No, it has been that way since the very first Leaf...

mctom987 said:

Potentially a result of offering two tire sizes?

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Stanton said:

FWIW, you can no longer buy (after market) Michelin Energy Savers that are on the "SL" trim package.

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TireRack has the Energy Saver A/S in 215/50/17.

Thank you all for pitching in!

At bottom line, should I gather that range-wise, all 3 wheel types are a wash?

And it sounds like the SL wheels might be an ICE gadget type that doesn't quite sit well with an EV? But Nissan's been pretty good about not confusing their EV constituency needs with ICE needs, so what gives? Or are they just catering to generic consumer obsession with wheel types?

As far as official numbers are concerned, I'm pretty sure EPA didn't test drive every trim separately when making their range estimate, so the fact they're all the same doesn't say much...

Thanks again, Assaf

Since the circumference (the only metric that matters in terms of size) is very close, the performance should be near identical. What will make a difference is the type of tire installed. Having a tire with a lower rolling resistance can improve efficiency as much as 5%.

Otherwise, yes, it looks like the 3 wheel options are a wash.

mctom987 said:

16" vs 17":
I haven't seen any specifics on this, so a lot of it is speculation. A larger wheel means the gearing has to change, or the car has a higher top speed. Since wind resistance is your nemesis, a higher top speed is useless. With a gearing adjustment to match the rotation speed of the smaller 16" wheel, there should be no significant change in performance.

FWIW: Nissan makes the same claims with all 3 wheels.

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It's not the case that, "A larger wheel means the gearing has to change."
Review this: http://blog.mechguru.com/vehicle-design/tire-rolling-circumference-calculation-example/

As long as the rolling circumference of the wheel/tire combination remains unchanged, so will all related mileage information.

With that understood, I'm seeking a det of 16-inch Nissan allow wheels on which to mount snow tires.

Can anyone conform what specific Nissan model wheels and years of production will fit a 2013 Leaf?

Thanks!

While theoretically the difference in wheel diameter will have a small effect on range, it is a significantly smaller effect than driving style. This is a fun car if you actually drive it...

rosier9 said:

While theoretically the difference in wheel diameter will have a small effect on range, it is a significantly smaller effect than driving style. This is a fun car if you actually drive it...

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To verify this thought; my experience regarding driving style: accelerating exactly one time to nearly merge with traffic going 70 MPK dropped my miles-to-empty range by nine miles!

That aside, if anyone knows any other Nissan 16-inch alloy wheels from specific models and model years will fit a 2013 Nissan Leaf, please do respond, thank you.

This is a knowledge-based question, and since I expect to be purchasing wheels based responses to this question, please do not reply with I "expect" or "think" such-and-such wheel, thank you!

Rim size has almost no connection with range.
BMW i3 has 19"/20" rims and is the most efficent EV on the market.

What does matter is tire frontal area (width of the tire). More means more air resistance.
Also spoke design (air turbulence means more losses).
Tire compound+surface pressure - soft rubber means more flex. Above nominal pressure between
tire and pavement means more flexing. More flexing means more losses (heat generated).
Wheel combined weight (rim+tire). Wide tires or with small sidewalls tend to weight more.
On the other hand 17" rims might be more aerodynamic and weight less.

In EU Leaf comes with 15" steel (S trim), 16" alloy (SV), 17" alloy (SL).
Wheel diameter is always the same (otherwise speedometer would be really off).
Bigger rim means smaller tire sidewall.
Most important factor for range is tire compound.

I've driven 16" and 17" rims (EU suspension) and not a lot of difference in handling nor range.
17" tends to be more sporty but for Leaf it is totally unneccessary (low center of gravity anyway).
I prefer 16" because tires are noticeably cheaper to buy and less curb/pothole damage potential.