imaric
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 003932

2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:17 pm

I purchased Leaf because I needed all it advantages advantages and a low maintenance car. My daily commute total (4 trips-works/kids' school) 60-64miles. Well, trying to figure out my Leaf , will I get there or will need to push it, I often felt like on that ridiculous quiz show (one game mentioned in the post title). When talking with Nissan satisfaction/support, they tried to make me feel like an idiot who just wasted all those years in math and engineering classes, and lost common sense.
Facts:
I live in So Cali - San Diego
In order to keep up with traffic on my commute, I get, very consistently 3.6miles/kWh (yes I can accelerate with 10kW and drive 55mph on freeway and get 5miles/kWh, but will get shot by some big-pick-up truck driver).

Purchased 2011 Leaf from dealer 1 year old, with 2k miles on it (was a rental car that they stopped renting as people were getting stuck-not used to electrics I though).
I was able to go only 55-60 miles before turtle. So from the getgo I couldn't do my daily commute, so I had to keep and juggle with my old ICE car.
In a year, at 15k miles it lost a bar, then another bar 10 mo later, and another..., and finally November 2015 I lost the fourth bar.

170 GIDS, 35-40 miles range. About 63% soc (I got this wi-fi OBD whatever and installed LeafSpy several months ago).

Battery got replaced, and adviser and Nissan support said there is no new / old model battery, they are all the same part number.
When I got the car back:
285 GIDS, drove it 73 miles with 3.6m/kWh. And turtle didn't came up on the dashboard, yet - but no bars left.
I have it for 3rd week now with new battery, and all 100% charges are 280 or 282 gids. (252 i think for 80%)

Here is my question: I noticed in the posts that 2015 Leafs have 292 (or was it 295) GIDS. Is there an old type battery and new type battery? Or I got a battery that just has a capacity tolerance on the low side?

BTW, all my calculations that I did and presented to Nissan to show them that range is low, now match DEAD-ON with this new battery (+ - 2%).
Although I am happy that I got a replacement battery (that I am/we are more than entitled to-remember their statement: 90% after 5years and 70% after 10 years), it pisses me off that Nissan put me thought so much trouble over last 4 years. Nissan, your customer support sucks, you can't try to convince people they are idiots; and you lost me as your future customer!

I wonder how long these replacement batteries last. Service adviser told me they haven't seen any 2013 or newer Leaf with (bad enough) battery degradation.

Feel free to comment. :-)

LeafMuranoDriver
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 May 2015
Leaf Number: 323189
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:43 pm

The stats could improve over the first month of driving it. My 2015 started at 283 and peaked at 292 but is down to 259 now. Some people have gotten 290-292 right away and for a year and 10,000 miles though. So many variables!!
2015 Leaf S w/ QC
Mfg: Jan. '15 // Pur: May '15
Best: 6/27/15 - 1,416 Miles - 292 GIDs - 63.11 Ahr - 22.6 kWh - 100% SOH - 97.2% Hx - 4 QC, 29 L2
Worst: 12/12/15 - 4,616 Miles - 259 GIDs - 55.02 Ahr - 20.1 kWh - 99% SOH - 82.8% Hx - 17 QC, 96 L2

Evoforce
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:49 am

I believe if you do everything the same as you have since 2012, the new battery will last the same length of time as the original battery did, when it was new in 2011 through November 2015. So add that amount of time on to 11/xx/15 forward and you will know fairly well when you will be back to 8 bars again. Lizard batteries are shaping up to last the same length of time as original batteries in Arizona. And I suspect they will degrade the same as the original battery did for your respective part of the country and weather conditions.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

Reddy
Posts: 1542
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:46 am

Unfortunately, I think evoforce is absolutely correct. Your new battery results will likely be identical to the old one. However, if those multiple trips allow time for mid-day charging, you will likely be able to drive it for a long time. Just keep driving and charging. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get as many miles out of my Leaf (no free battery replacement for me, and I'm a low annual mileage driver). Enjoy your EV grin and keep smiling every time you pass a gas station. BTW, in five years, I would expect even more solar installed in the San Diego area, further depressing wholesale electricity pricing between the hours of 10am-2pm. Pretty soon, it may be cheaper to charge during the day than at night. :o
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13330
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:08 pm

sorry but this is not what you want to hear but I can't accept the fact that anyone would want to push their range by "driving along with everyone else" excuse because it is simply that; an excuse.

San Diego is no different that nearly any other place in CA. trucks must drive slower and there is nothing that says you cant drive with them and if you slowed down enough, you might find you have plenty of company. now that gas is "cheap"er, the speeds will go up but just because everyone else chooses to break the law does not mean you need to follow

it does look like your last post, the pack is doing fine so you will be ok for probably a few years at least but I deal with range every day and its simply a matter of driving slower and risk "getting run over" or stop and charge on the way home. maybe I am lucky in that traffic frequently moves much slower than the maximum allowable speed limit but even if it didn't, the thought of stopping anywhere on the way home after a 10 hour day just ain't happening if it can be avoided and to me; driving 55 is not really a compromise when the alternatives are considered
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

powersurge
Posts: 1127
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:45 pm

So you have been driving this car since August, 2011, and just got a new replacement battery under warrantee in almost 2016. Now that battery will last you at least until 2021. I cant see the negative in that situation. Count your blessings, not GIDS, and keep thinking that you have just saved $6000. SHEESH!

caffeinekid
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:57 am
Delivery Date: 06 Mar 2011
Location: Wilmington, Louisiana

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:55 am

powersurge wrote:So you have been driving this car since August, 2011, and just got a new replacement battery under warrantee in almost 2016. Now that battery will last you at least until 2021. I cant see the negative in that situation. Count your blessings, not GIDS, and keep thinking that you have just saved $6000. SHEESH!

The negative would depend on how long he had to drive with diminished range- 1yr, 3yrs....4years?

Having driven both the 2011, which noticeably diminished after a little over a year, and a 2014 which has yet to noticeably diminish after 2 years of use, I can say the battery replacement on a 2011 is hardly something to do a happy dance over after struggling for so long.
2011 Leaf SV returned
2011 Leaf SL returned
2014 Leaf S 2.1.2014 returned

Evoforce
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:23 pm

caffeinekid wrote:
powersurge wrote:So you have been driving this car since August, 2011, and just got a new replacement battery under warrantee in almost 2016. Now that battery will last you at least until 2021. I cant see the negative in that situation. Count your blessings, not GIDS, and keep thinking that you have just saved $6000. SHEESH!

The negative would depend on how long he had to drive with diminished range- 1yr, 3yrs....4years?

Having driven both the 2011, which noticeably diminished after a little over a year, and a 2014 which has yet to noticeably diminish after 2 years of use, I can say the battery replacement on a 2011 is hardly something to do a happy dance over after struggling for so long.



+1 There is some truth to that! Wait till he gets there and finds out for himself. They promoted these batteries as ten year life for one. Not replace 2 and still be under ten years. I'd be happy to get 8 years out of two of them without major capacity loss. But I still like the cars, just not the battery durability.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 8403
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:48 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:sorry but this is not what you want to hear but I can't accept the fact that anyone would want to push their range by "driving along with everyone else" excuse because it is simply that; an excuse.

San Diego is no different that nearly any other place in CA. trucks must drive slower and there is nothing that says you cant drive with them and if you slowed down enough, you might find you have plenty of company. now that gas is "cheap"er, the speeds will go up

I can't speak to San Diego since I haven't been there for ages, but as for "trucks must drive slower", well, on highways I'm on, there are very few (big) trucks. I remember a moving van driver saying "he can't drive there" on some highways.

I see on http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/truck ... t-list.htm for highway 85 (which I do drive on every weekday), there's this "No trucks over 9,000 pounds gross vehicle weight. ("Trucks" includes trucks with full trailer or semitrailer.) For exceptions, click here for Santa Clara County Ordinance, Sec. B17-5.4. - Exceptions. "

Unfortunately, also, if going slow here in Nor Cal, if you keep stay in the right lane on the highway in order to avoid blocking traffic, you will CONSTANTLY have to slow down and speed up and also change out (and back in) to the lane due to cars entering the highway, besides running into other traffic of varying speeds. It is a pain in the butt to be there and frankly, a lot more dangerous due to the much greater chance of accident due to constant lane changes along w/constantly encountering speed deltas between you and other vehicles.

I've done it before when testing out "superhighway mode" on my Prius, needing to preserve range on my Leaf or doing experiments.

And, certain parts of CA drive much faster than others. Going 70+ mph in a 55 zone in LA area highways means you're roughly keeping up with flow of traffic w/lots of people still zooming by you. In the Sacramento area, it seems people drive quite fast, as well.

In my part of the Bay Area, most of the time, people don't drive quite as fast the LA area. I've also noticed no real significant difference in speeds vs. gas prices. Doesn't matter if gas is $4+/gallon, people don't seem to slow down.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

imaric
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 003932

Re: 2011 Leaf Battery Replacement - sink or float?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:55 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:sorry but this is not what you want to hear but I can't accept the fact that anyone would want to push their range by "driving along with everyone else" excuse because it is simply that; an excuse.
San Diego is no different that nearly any other place in CA. trucks must drive slower and there is nothing that says you can’t drive with them ...


First, everybody thanks for your comments. From one of the suggestions, to charge during the day, another question came to my mind:
Is it better to drive from let's say 80-90% charge down to 1 or 2 bars, or to stay in mid-range 40-80% and do a mid-day charge.
Higher charge and lower discharge, VS. more charging cycles?

About excuses: "Driving along with everyone else" means exactly what you are saying: Be with others in the slow lane. What it doesn't mean is to be slower than all others and have every car or truck, who somehow, ended up behind you, have to go around you (often in a rage). The fact that we need to drive like this to get listed range, is cheating the customer, in a way.

I'm sorry, but I just can't understand some people who are defending Nissan and expecting us all to comply with Nissan nonsense. Somehow I am doing things wrong if I believed Nissan's statement and (somehow non-binding) promise that batteries should last 90%=5 years, 70% 10 years, and I believed them saying 62-132miles range? It didn't say anywhere that I need to drive like a grandma to get those 62 miles. Nissan tech tested my Leaf when it had just a couple of thousand miles on it, and with 5.0miles per kW he got 72 miles. That was good enough for Nissan to blow me off (as it was more than 62 miles). Every time when I asked, "calculate the capacity from there", or "what do i need to do to get those 132 miles?", the answer was "He drove between 62 and 132 miles, there is nothing wrong with your car or battery". Like a broken record, no matter what I asked!

And if some people like to put their head down, go along with the manufacturer, pretend that everything is fine, they got what they paid for, by driving 55 on the freeway, I'm sorry, I'm not one of those. Casual drive on the freeway is 65-80mph, depending on the traffic flow as everybody else is. If almost everybody is breaking the law, then something might be wrong with that regulation? Lot of people, when there is a need, go 96 down the hill in the Leaf. They don't expect 132 miles range, but, also, not 22 miles range.
If manufacturer wants to sell the car here, that car needs to be capable of doing what local traffic, climate etc. demand. There is a reason why golf carts are not certified for freeway use.

Cheers!

:-)

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