PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:00 am

Hi,

We seek current Leaf owners to provide feedback regarding their driving experience and results with a new range-extending technology. This is an aftermarket and OEM solution that has been tested over 3-4 years by vehicle manufacturers and fleet operators in closed course and open road testing.

The feedback we are looking for is your real-world experience and results with a solution specifically designed for the Leaf. There's no cost to participate. We prefer candidates who have owned a Leaf for at least six months and consider themselves familiar with the performance and driving characteristics of the vehicle.

Here's an overview of the program: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6rEgzXybfRZWk9sdkcyYTZ4NU0/view?usp=sharing

Please post a note here if you have questions/ interest or send a PM to participate.

Best,
Marc
Pedal Logic
Last edited by PedalLogic on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RePo
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 404201
Location: Houston, TX

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:56 am

What is the general overview of the range extender? Is it additional batteries on board? Is a trailer based generator or battery setup?

Is it a considered a permanent modification to the car, or will the experimental equipment be returned and the car remain altered in some way?

I'm interested, I drive around an urban environment daily visiting customer site that are occasionally out of range.

Note: I found the website. Disregard, didn't realize it was a gimmick.
Last edited by RePo on Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Found my super black 2013 Leaf.

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TonyWilliams
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:24 am

Pedal Logic... you're going to add pedals, Fred Flintstone style?

I have owned two Nissan LEAFs, with about 36,000 miles driven total.

I don't usually respond cryptic guessing games on technology, but what the hell. I'll participate. If you're looking to get a non-emotional response, I'm happy to provide it.

Newporttom
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:57 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 6194
Location: Saint Johns, FL

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:29 am

Well, their website talks about a "smart accelerator" (my term, not theirs, although they will probably steal that now!!), so my guess is that is what they are talking about for the Leaf also. One that eliminates all the little fluctuations in pressure you apply as drive.

I suspect the mileage extension would be pretty darn small.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL - Cayenne Red
Accepted 12/14/11

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10025
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:37 am

Newporttom wrote:Well, their website talks about a "smart accelerator" (my term, not theirs, although they will probably steal that now!!), so my guess is that is what they are talking about for the Leaf also. One that eliminates all the little fluctuations in pressure you apply as drive.

I suspect the mileage extension would be pretty darn small.


Ya, I can't even bring myself to read the websites on something that appears to be clouded in no-facts.

Newporttom
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:57 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 6194
Location: Saint Johns, FL

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:09 pm

I thought it was an interesting concept. I would test it but I am in Florida and I'm sure they are looking for California testers. But the only price points I saw were on buses and it was REALLY high in my opinion.

I ran a couple numbers quickly. If this thing allowed a gas vehicle to get an extra one MPG and you drove 15,000 in a year it would save you $24 in a year. So the price point (to me) would have to be $50 or so to make it cost effective.

And I thought getting an extra 1 MPG was optimistic. Love to hear what it achieves.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL - Cayenne Red
Accepted 12/14/11

PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:14 pm

Hi Everyone,

Here's more info: We've developed a patented technology called "Pedal Signal Correction." The operating principal is very straightforward:

During normal operation, a vehicle is not only moving forward, but also moves up and down several times a second. Because it happens so quickly, this motion causes the driver's foot to unintentionally change pressure on the accelerator pedal, which in turn changes the requested power from the motor. Even at slow speeds, these cycles in power typically happen several times a second, which necessitates an automated solution.

In terms of performance, we commonly see results in the 7-8% range. In some testing, we have seen >10% results, although a change in vehicle behavior becomes noticeable. In physical terms, the aftermarket version is about the size of an iPhone charger and designed for plug-and-play installation in about 10 minutes.

Pricing that one of the commenters saw on our website is for transit buses, which typically use $30000+ in fuel annually. We understand that pricing is not relevant to passenger cars. One of the questions for the testers will be to recommend retail pricing after having an opportunity to use the technology.

Please keep the questions coming. I already have a few PMs for testing--I'll respond to everyone in that group today. Thanks!

Marc

Durandal
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:02 pm

I think that using "Eco" mode on the leaf accomplishes some of what this is intending to do.

The secondary note, is that this simply is a software thing that could be done by Nissan, Tesla, etc, to simply nullify any small change in the acceleration pedal location unless held for more than a second, since there is no actual hardware linkage to a throttle body, it's simply a potentiometer.

As a third note, if you're using cruise control, there's no bouncing of your foot on the pedal unless you're attempting to exceed the speed that you have the cruise control set to.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:10 pm

Hi Durandal,

I think that using "Eco" mode on the leaf accomplishes some of what this is intending to do.

Actually that's not the case. Our technology improves the miles per kWh regardless of whether the vehicle is in Power or ECO mode. We know this through extensive independent closed course and open-road testing.

The secondary note, is that this simply is a software thing that could be done by Nissan, Tesla, etc, to simply nullify any small change in the acceleration pedal location unless held for more than a second, since there is no actual hardware linkage to a throttle body, it's simply a potentiometer.

Not the case either. The approach you're describing is a lag filter, which is very well known in the industry. The trouble with that approach is that it compromises vehicle performance significantly and, as a result, is disfavored by manufacturers.

As a third note, if you're using cruise control, there's no bouncing of your foot on the pedal unless you're attempting to exceed the speed that you have the cruise control set to.

It depends on how you drive. If you take your foot of the pedal when using cruise control you will avoid having your foot dance on the pedal and our technology wouldn't provide any benefit. However, that's not the safest way to drive at highway speeds. And while we perform well on highway driving, we perform even better in city driving, which is where vehicles typically need the most improvement.


In summary, I'd have wasted the last few years of my career and a lot of money if all we did was re-invent the wheel. ;) Instead, we have a unique technology that has already been tested on defense platforms, municipal transit buses, and a very wide array of electric and combustion light vehicles. Our goal is to collect additional candid feedback from Leaf owners as a final checksum before releasing a Leaf version to the market.

Best,
Marc

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:32 pm

This reads as fairly fishy to me. I'm sorry, but my foot doesn't "bounce" or "dance" on the accelerator pedal as I drive. It might move slightly if I hit a bump, but the pedal has enough stiffness to generally avoid that. Also, I know of no one who leaves their foot on the pedal when using cruise control. We don't tuck our feet under our butts, but we do take them off the pedal on the highway. Given that, if the pedal were being moved enough to matter, then using cruise control with foot off the pedal should produce a large improvement in economy. Instead, it produces what you'd expect from simply eliminating small but frequent speed changes on level road. The throttle mapping of Eco mode is all that is needed to produce the effect described. The technology in question might help with some ICE vehicles with light pedals, but the Leaf isn't one of them.

I say this as someone who "invented" a different but somewhat similar device, back in the Eighties. It was a two-mode A/C deactivator that, when engaged, turned the A/C on either if the brake light was lit, or if the throttle opening was small, depending on the mode selected. I wanted an adjustable timer mode as well, but back then I couldn't find one off the shelf that was cheap enough.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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