Rauv
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:04 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2012
Leaf Number: 19000
Location: Twin Cites, MN

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:41 am

So, does this device work or is it snake oil?
2013 Cayenne SL [47 months][35000 mi][12 bar][247 "winter" Gids][56.0 AHr][86.0 hx]
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GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:36 am

Rauv wrote:So, does this device work or is it snake oil?


It seems to work as advertised here. It certainly smooths out the bumps, and seems to increase efficiency. This isn't magically going to double your range, but could add maybe 10%. Note that for a nominal 84-mile EV like the 24kWh Leaf, that's 8.4 miles of additional range. So take that for what it's worth.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:38 am

I had to turn on the heat this weekend, and the energy use drowned out the increase economy I had been seeing. Unfortunately, with the coming weather, I will be using heat more and more. I'm not going to be able to provide meaningful numbers comparing the modes to one another, but I will certainly continue to use the device and provide my driving impressions.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1477
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:07 pm

kingofthehuns wrote:- You are right, in its most aggressive mode, the timing effects (it is not a traditional lag filter, rather an optimized dynamic approximation curve - ODAC) can be felt. We have addressed that with a 2 stage ODAC which kicks in based on input evaluations. It sounds like the 2nd stage did not kick in in your case. I went back, replayed the possible scenario you are likely to have experienced in our lab and adjusted the parameter evaluator. The 2nd stage blending function should activate more responsively now, although it may come at the expense of energy efficiency. It is not an easy task to strike the right balance between performance and efficiency, and without going into details, our system constantly analyzes the I/O pmeters and makes small modifications (one may say it tries to learn).
[/list]

3. @RockyNV; "Mode 5 issues"

    - Mode 5 was designed to approximate "ECO" responsiveness while driven in "D". Just for the record, I also drive a Leaf, since 2011. We did a fair amount of acceleration (timing and g-force) measurements, but based on your feedback, we must have missed something. I think it may have something to do with the 2nd stage ODAC activation and the associated parameters, I will look into it.

All the above SW modifications will be in the next firmware update. I will discuss the details with Marc.

Thank you,

-A


I can't speak for everyone but when I want instant torque from an EV its generally below 20 mph and I'm giving it more than 1/3 throttle and usually more like half to full throttle. Maybe think of it like three use cases

1. I want to get up to speed slowly but right away with the option to speed up immediately if I misjudged an opening. (think 33%-50% power)
2. I want to get up to speed quickly, as little delay as possible but I don't want to get to high speed so I'm not flooring it. (think %55-75% power until I clear then letting off the pedal to speed up slower/maintain speed/slow down again)
3. I want to get up to speed quickly and keep speeding up, (think 80-100% power like a very short highway onramp)

I want low delay from starting speed zero but once I'm up to 20 mph I'm willing to mash the pedal down further if the leaf isn't responding as quick as I'd like.

I drive in Drive and ECO modes and often don't know which I'm in so I essentially am creating the delay in some cases by putting pedal pressure for Drive when I'm in ECO. I'm pretty used to the response I expect for each and adjust on the fly without issue most of the time.

I'd hate to think if I got this device installed that it might be any worse than I'm already dealing with in low speed, high acceleration use case but I'd be interested in using it for the commute once I get away from the crowded city streets where I have to dash about and have hit something closer to a steady speed for a bit.
2012 Leaf tires 195/65/15 Dunlop Enasave 01 A/S, 15" Rims
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PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:44 pm

Hi Everyone,

If you're curious, based on earlier feedback in the thread, we researched the use of an audio device instead of an LED to signal diagnostic and mode data. The suggestion was that audio feedback would eliminate the need to poke one's head under the dash. I like this idea ( and kudos to Oakleaf for suggesting it ) because it could improve the customer experience and simplify manufacturing--we could have a single version of our PCB instead of two versions featuring either a left- or right-side mounted LED.

In finding a suitable audio component, the initial challenge was a tiny power budget, so we focused on piezo buzzers. Another challenge was the physical dimensions: we have very little open real estate. The good news is that although it was physically larger than the MCU/CPU that powers our system, we did find a piezo buzzer that fits our PCB.

You can see a picture of the piezo hand soldered directly on top of the MCU in this picture below. Our PCB is purple and the piezo is the large, slightly off kilter component in the center. Also in the picture are a few other piezo buzzers with which we also experimented.
Image

The bad news is that none of the piezos generated enough dB to be useful in the broad array of vehicles and environments that we could reasonably expect them to be installed and used. This is an unintended byproduct of our housing: the floors and walls are 3MM thick in order to provide robustness and crush resistance. But this means that the piezo's buzzing is barely audible with even a modest amount of background noise--we had an office window open during testing and could barely hear the piezo.

So, for now, we have to stick with the light emitting diode. However, we replaced it with a 30% brighter part based on the thread feedback. (FYI, I sometimes use my iPhone with the camera on "selfie" mode to show me what's going on at the pedal if I want to skip climbing under the dash.)

I think that the ultimate solution is a wireless implementation that communicates with a mobile app. The challenge with that, again, is power budget. We've done some experimentation and as soon as the technology supports it, we will roll out a solution--but my guess is that will be several years from now, and probably many of you will have already purchased your next Leaf.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback to date. Best,

Marc

PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:14 pm

Hi Everyone,

We developed new software based on early feedback from the group. The software focuses mainly on driving experience but also includes some additional logic for further acceleration optimization.

Please PM me if you'd like us to update your Smartpedal unit. Please also PM a summary of your driving experience, results to date, and any additional thoughts or recommendations that you would like to share.

Best,
Marc

PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:52 pm

Hi Everyone,

New release of the software ready and shipping tomorrow. The software will be on new Smartpedal units for swapping out with the original. Please return the original using the pre-paid shipping label.

About the software: the device is now set up for three modes, not five. The three modes should give both better drivability and better mileage performance relative to the previous unit you received.

The default mode is 2.

Modes 1, 2 and 3 can all be used on D mode. For most drivers, Mode 2 in D will likely give the best combination of mileage and performance--essentially E-level mileage while largely preserving the fun of D mode.

For E drivers, we recommend switching to mode 1. After trying mode 1 for 300-400 miles, you can try mode 2. We do _not_ recommend mode 3 for E driving as it is likely to give negative results.

Once you've had a chance to drive for a bit, I'd love to hear what you think of the driving experience and your mileage results.

Best,
Marc

PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:49 am

Hi Everyone,

Latest report from GetOffYourGas:

Here are my stats since changing to mode 3 on 5/26/17. Temps have been warmer, from 45-90, average around 70. Driving was the same split of highway/local with the same speeds. I saw a roughly 9% improvement overall.

PedalLogic
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 007889

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:26 am

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick note: the final release of the software is ready. We'll build and ship updated devices tomorrow. Look for an email notice with tracking info. As before, we will use the usps priority service, so you should receive within 2-days of shipment.

Marc

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:43 pm

PedalLogic wrote:Hi Everyone,

Latest report from GetOffYourGas:

Here are my stats since changing to mode 3 on 5/26/17. Temps have been warmer, from 45-90, average around 70. Driving was the same split of highway/local with the same speeds. I saw a roughly 9% improvement overall.


Sorry I didn't post my results sooner. I wanted to follow my testing with a few hundred miles of driving without the PedalLogic unit so I could control my usage to be as similar as possible.

The unit has three modes, each progressively more aggressive. Here are my numbers after 800+ miles in each mode:

baseline (no PedalLogic) - 3.3 miles / kWh
Mode 1 - 3.5 miles/kWh
Mode 2 - 3.4 miles/kWh
Mode 3 - 3.7 miles/kWh

All modes performed better than stock. Mode 3 saw about a 12% improvement from stock (the quote above was relative to Mode 2, which was the least efficient mode, but still better than stock). My driving was as consistent as possible through each mode's test. Temperatures were similar and I always had the climate running with slight A/C (never heat). The efficiency numbers settled into a very consistent value, which gave me a high confidence in them.

I also found that the unit made it easier to drive efficiently when desired. It definitely works as advertised, smoothing out the bumps.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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