jjeff
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:06 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
PedalLogic wrote:Hi Everyone,

Latest report from GetOffYourGas:

Here are my stats since changing to mode 3 on 5/26/17. Temps have been warmer, from 45-90, average around 70. Driving was the same split of highway/local with the same speeds. I saw a roughly 9% improvement overall.


Sorry I didn't post my results sooner. I wanted to follow my testing with a few hundred miles of driving without the PedalLogic unit so I could control my usage to be as similar as possible.

The unit has three modes, each progressively more aggressive. Here are my numbers after 800+ miles in each mode:

baseline (no PedalLogic) - 3.3 miles / kWh
Mode 1 - 3.5 miles/kWh
Mode 2 - 3.4 miles/kWh
Mode 3 - 3.7 miles/kWh

All modes performed better than stock. Mode 3 saw about a 12% improvement from stock (the quote above was relative to Mode 2, which was the least efficient mode, but still better than stock). My driving was as consistent as possible through each mode's test. Temperatures were similar and I always had the climate running with slight A/C (never heat). The efficiency numbers settled into a very consistent value, which gave me a high confidence in them.

I also found that the unit made it easier to drive efficiently when desired. It definitely works as advertised, smoothing out the bumps.

What is the disadvantage of mode 3? or how does it differ from not using the device?
Any real disadvantage of mode 1? I mean would one even notice the difference between mode 1 or a car without the device?
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
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GetOffYourGas
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:49 pm

jjeff wrote:What is the disadvantage of mode 3? or how does it differ from not using the device?


Mode 3 is very aggressive. It definitely changes the whole feel of the car. You get used to it, but it's a change. The car is not as peppy from a stop (although you can get to full power in an emergency if you punch it). So some may not want to use it because they don't want the car to drive that way.

BUT, it was significantly (and consistently) more efficient.

jjeff wrote:Any real disadvantage of mode 1? I mean would one even notice the difference between mode 1 or a car without the device?


There is a slight difference in feel between mode 1 and no device. But it is very minor. You feel it mostly on very rough roads (our winters are harsh and the city of Syracuse is not particularly wealthy, so we have a lot of those around).

It's actually mode 2 that was my least favorite. The car felt less responsive than mode 1 or none, but I actually was less efficient overall. I'm guessing it was tuned for driving conditions very dissimilar to my own. Others' experience may be very different.

Overall, the device allowed me to better control how efficiently I was driving. If I knew I would be pushing the range, it boosted my confidence. If I owned one, I would want to switch between mode 1 and mode 3, depending on my needs for the day. Switching modes on the prototype was inconvenient, but that seems like a very solvable problem.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

powersurge
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:29 am

so what is this product going to retail at???

This sounds like another "box" like from that guy in Europe....

PedalLogic
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:09 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:The unit has three modes, each progressively more aggressive. Here are my numbers after 800+ miles in each mode:

baseline (no SmartPedal) - 3.3 miles / kWh
Mode 1 - 3.5 miles/kWh
Mode 2 - 3.4 miles/kWh
Mode 3 - 3.7 miles/kWh

All modes performed better than stock. Mode 3 saw about a 12% improvement from stock (the quote above was relative to Mode 2, which was the least efficient mode, but still better than stock). My driving was as consistent as possible through each mode's test. Temperatures were similar and I always had the climate running with slight A/C (never heat). The efficiency numbers settled into a very consistent value, which gave me a high confidence in them. I also found that the unit made it easier to drive efficiently when desired.

It definitely works as advertised, smoothing out the bumps.

Hi GetOffYourGas,

Excellent feedback. Thanks for taking the time both to collect this large amount of data and to post your results on the thread.

It's really useful to us from two perspectives. First, the empirical data measuring performance is really valuable in and of itself. We did plenty of in-house closed-course and open-road testing before getting to this point, including with OEMs, but it's not the same as releasing SmartPedal into the wild and then tracking the results. Seeing the reports of beta testers doing real-world driving is both more valuable and more exciting by comparison.

I also appreciate your take on the feel of the different driving modes. Our goal during development was to preserve (and sometimes improve) the driving experience as much as possible. Based on feedback from you and others, we may increase the number of available driving modes from three to six. Essentially there will be five base driving modes that largely preserve the driving experience and then one extra "super-eco" mode. Like the phrase implies, the "super eco" mode 6 will significantly changes the feel of driving in exchange for maximizing mileage. (FYI, we call this version "5+1" internally.) I can send you one of the 5+1 SmartPedal units along with a return label for the current unit if you'd like—just let me know.

Thank you again for testing!

Marc

P.S. We used to refer to our company and product as Pedal Logic. Taking a cue from Nest Labs and their Nest product we recently changed our company and product names to SmartPedal Labs and SmartPedal.

PedalLogic
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:53 am

powersurge wrote:so what is this product going to retail at???


The price is $299 with a 1-year limited warranty. You can extend the warranty to three years for an extra $29, which is $14.50 a year. As inexpensive as that is compared to most warranty extensions, it's probably not a good use of your funds because of the high internal build quality. (We invested five years in R&D before first offering SmartPedal for sale in late 2016.)

We haven't made a decision whether to sell to consumers, or to focus on commercial and governmental fleets. The challenge for us is on the selling side: it's a lot of effort to demonstrate the effectiveness and overcome all the usual pre-sales questions and concerns, so it's much better for us if the reward at the end is a sale of hundreds or thousands of units instead of a single SmartPedal.

That said, if members following this thread want to order, I can post a 45%-off promo code for a few days.

powersurge wrote:This sounds like another "box" like from that guy in Europe....


Not sure who you mean, but I do hear a cynical tone, which is understandable given all the bologna in the realm of aftermarket parts, and better mileage in particular. I had hoped to mitigate some of that cynicism by providing advance units to a few volunteers from this group and allowing the reported results to speak for themselves.

In any case, if you want to learn more about how our technology works, the first two pages of this thread include a lot of detail, plus you can visit our home page (http://www.smartpedal.com), although the conversation there is more marketing oriented.

If you really want to dive into the details, the US Patent and Trademark Office issued two patents for our technology: https://www.google.com/patents/US9387861 and https://www.google.com/patents/US948137 ... IQ6AEIJjAA.

They print out to about 1" thick of paper so they're best for online viewing.

Marc

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RegGuheert
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm

PedalLogic wrote:
powersurge wrote:so what is this product going to retail at???
That said, if members following this thread want to order, I can post a 45%-off promo code for a few days.
Please do so, particularly if this would be for the "5+1" version. This could be the only aftermarket upgrade we provide for our MY2011 LEAF. We would purchase it not so much for the money savings since that only comes to about $30/year, but rather for the extra range that we might achieve by using the "Super Eco" mode in the hopes of forestalling the future need for a battery replacement.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

PedalLogic
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:40 am

RegGuheert wrote:Please do so, particularly if this would be for the "5+1" version.

Will do. The code is MYLEAF. It's active now through next Friday (Sept 29). We'll make sure to ship the 5+1.

RegGuheert wrote:This could be the only aftermarket upgrade we provide for our MY2011 LEAF.

That's great to read.

RegGuheert wrote:We would purchase it not so much for the money savings since that only comes to about $30/year, but rather for the extra range that we might achieve by using the "Super Eco" mode in the hopes of forestalling the future need for a battery replacement.

You hit the nail on the head on an aspect of our internal marketing conversation of consumer vs. fleet. In addition to increased range, our technology typically generates about a 12-24 month payback on the investment for fleet vehicles, almost all of which are combustion powered. In consumer EVs, the payback period increases to 4-5 years because of the underlying efficiency of EVs and the low cost of electricity. So with EVs, our value proposition is mostly about range.

On the other hand, you'll notice when SmartPedal is installed that the instantaneous demand spikes on the battery pack diminish significantly. These are the spikes that typically occur one or more times a second during normal driving as the vehicle moves up/down while travel over the roadway. We have no data to back this up yet, but we think that mitigating these spikes helps the performance and longevity of the battery pack.

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RegGuheert
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:52 am

PedalLogic wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:Please do so, particularly if this would be for the "5+1" version.
Will do. The code is MYLEAF. It's active now through next Friday (Sept 29). We'll make sure to ship the 5+1.
Thanks! Order placed.

For others like me who do not know where to go to place an order, the website is SmartPedal.com.
PedalLogic wrote:On the other hand, you'll notice when SmartPedal is installed that the instantaneous demand spikes on the battery pack diminish significantly. These are the spikes that typically occur one or more times a second during normal driving as the vehicle moves up/down while travel over the roadway. We have no data to back this up yet, but we think that mitigating these spikes helps the performance and longevity of the battery pack.
That explanation sealed the deal for me. Range is most limited in wintertime and this appears to be dominated by the increase in resistance of the battery pack as it has degraded. This results in an almost complete loss of regen when crossing the nearby mountain, which likely will not be helped by this device, but I'm hopeful some energy will be saved in other portions of my wife's commute to help give her margin to successfully make it home from her 50-mile commute for a few more years.

BTW, I considered also purchasing one of these for our 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, but it appears that you only offer them for MY2012 and later. Is this because your technology is only compatible with more recent electronic pedals?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

PedalLogic
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:58 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Thanks! Order placed.

Thank you! We'll ship tomorrow. Look for tracking info via email.

RegGuheert wrote:For others like me who do not know where to go to place an order, the website is SmartPedal.com.

I am sometimes embarrassed at how poorly we market ourselves. :roll:

RegGuheert wrote:BTW, I considered also purchasing one of these for our 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, but it appears that you only offer them for MY2012 and later. Is this because your technology is only compatible with more recent electronic pedals?

Yes, exactly.

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RegGuheert
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Re: pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:31 pm

PedalLogic wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:Thanks! Order placed.

Thank you! We'll ship tomorrow. Look for tracking info via email.
Awesome!

One more question for you: I looked at the two videos on installation and those seem pretty clear. (But I've worked on cars enough to know that doesn't mean it will be easy!) Thanks for those. Unfortunately, when I tried to view the video linked on page four of this thread regarding configuration and calibration, I got a message saying that video does not exist. Have those instructions changed? Are they provided with the product?

I also have a question for anyone about the LEAF pedal: Mine has been making a "spring-type noise" for the past couple of years and I'm wondering if there is something I can do to quiet that thing while I am down there fiddling with it. Anyone have ideas how to quiet the spring in the LEAF pedal?
PedalLogic wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:For others like me who do not know where to go to place an order, the website is SmartPedal.com.

I am sometimes embarrassed at how poorly we market ourselves. :roll:
Now I see you have the link to your website higher up on this page. :oops:
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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