GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 1:16 pm

2011 did not do the top off charging shown in the graph. I was surprised to see that nearly one hour of tapered and cycling charging when I first got the 2015, but it does result in a higher SOC. My 2011 would show a maximum of 394 volts at full charge (usually between 392 and 394, but never above 394). My 2015 shows at least 395 volts (usually higher) at full charge so the cycling charge for the last hour does result in slightly higher volts/cell and, therefore, slightly higher SOC. The actual driving range at steady speed is no different between a 2011 with new battery and 2015 with new battery. The 2015 has a bit more aggressive regeneration which contributes to a bit more range in stop/go driving and is why it is rated higher on the EPA test cycle. I believe the 80% charge rule first applied in 2013 and the 80% charging option was eliminated in 2014. FWIW I found that the 73 miles listed by the EPA for 2011 is realistic for both the 2011 and 2015 with 100% charge.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

Superchewie
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 9:28 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2017

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 1:28 pm

Super interesting. Thanks for contributing, everyone. I learned a lot!

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 1:39 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
Yes, it seems likely that it is to cram more charge in. We learned of it via the articles that viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21628 references. That might be responsible for a small part of the higher EPA range rating of the '13 to '15 24 kWh Leafs (84 miles at 100% instead of 73).


On the MY 11 and 12 cars a factor in the lower EPA rating was because for the test they had to show the 80% charge range result and not the 100% rate. With the 80% rate removed in 2013, then they could now list the higher range rate.


You got this completely wrong, making other info you provide suspect. The 80% charge limit (different from an 80% timer setting) was implemented in 2013, the EPA lowered the range rating because of averaging in 2013, and the 80% charge option, including 80% charge timer, was then removed in 2014 in the US. It was left in place in other countries.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

cwerdna
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Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 2:28 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Yes, it seems likely that it is to cram more charge in. We learned of it via the articles that viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21628 references. That might be responsible for a small part of the higher EPA range rating of the '13 to '15 24 kWh Leafs (84 miles at 100% instead of 73).


On the MY 11 and 12 cars a factor in the lower EPA rating was because for the test they had to show the 80% charge range result and not the 100% rate. With the 80% rate removed in 2013, then they could now list the higher range rate.

No, 80% charge setting existed on '13 in actually 2 places, both the timer and and a new "long life mode" setting. I'm on my 2nd '13 SV.

All references were removed on '14+ US Leafs, which gave an artificial EPA mileage boost from "75 miles" on the '13 to "84 miles" on the '14.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/21/2013 ... y-84-in-n/
http://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-m ... -84-miles/

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

cwerdna
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Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 2:38 pm

GerryAZ wrote:The 2015 has a bit more aggressive regeneration which contributes to a bit more range in stop/go driving and is why it is rated higher on the EPA test cycle.

That also could contribute. There's are also some motor efficiency improvements shown in a graph at http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOL ... train.html. Wouldn't surprise me if that benefited the EPA tests since 3 of the cycles have very gentle acceleration (http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml under Test Details).
GerryAZ wrote:I believe the 80% charge rule first applied in 2013 and the 80% charging option was eliminated in 2014.

Yes, seems like it, from the articles I cited.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 8&id=34699 has the 73, 75 and 84 mile figures for the '11, '13, and '14, respectively.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 2:48 pm

No, 80% charge setting existed on '13 in actually 2 places, both the timer and and a new "long life mode" setting. I'm on my 2nd '13 SV.


OK, I just remember that in January 2013 I learned that the 80% mode was going away in anticipation of the revised chemistry battery. It made for some lively dissusion in Nissan engineering at the time, but after it was implmented (in '14 to your correction), it was a non-event.
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
46,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

GerryAZ
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 3:12 pm

The 80% charge setting has never been an issue to me because I have always charged to 100% and frequently discharge to LBW or VLBW, but there was no real change in actual driving range between 2011 and 2015 (other than battery deterioration is much less with 2015 so effective range after 2 years is higher).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 4:12 pm

GerryAZ wrote:The 80% charge setting has never been an issue to me because I have always charged to 100% and frequently discharge to LBW or VLBW, but there was no real change in actual driving range between 2011 and 2015 (other than battery deterioration is much less with 2015 so effective range after 2 years is higher).


Many have always thought that climates like Phoenix are edge cases, that is a debate that I don't want to relitagate, but if if after 2 years of heavy duty high mileage usage, and only 2 bars lost Gerry, I'd say that is quite an improvement. I went from 2 bars lost in 32K miles and 2 years to 46K miles 3 years, and no bars lost. And even if I am an outlier as well, the trend of the LEAF batteries are is very positive.
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
46,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 4:16 pm

Actually, my 2015 is still at 11 capacity bars after 27 months and almost 40k miles.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Curiosity Only - Near-100% Charging Behaviour

Sun May 07, 2017 5:16 pm

GerryAZ wrote:Actually, my 2015 is still at 11 capacity bars after 27 months and almost 40k miles.


That is great to hear.
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
46,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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