pyromancy5
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 337249

Re: SoH dropping fast

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:41 am

powersurge wrote:I have always heard that the batteries like to be at 50 % charge. I have also always thought that draining down to 20% before charging results in a greater strain than recharging at 40-50%????


I don't think this is accurate. I don't know if this is true now, but with older Li batteries, if they weren't fully discharged, the would lose their zero point. Something to do with migration of free radicals and dendrite formation... not sure I understand it all, but I believe migration happens more under full charge , not when empty.
2014 Leaf SL

pyromancy5
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 337249

Re: SoH dropping fast

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:07 pm

SageBrush wrote:Your 11th bar should drop any day now. The next two bars are worth about 13%
Will you lose 13% in 18 months ? Maybe. Depends a lot on your locale.



I'm in Ohio. We get plenty hot in the summer, but I only have one summer left and I now park at work in a covered garage, instead of a surface lot. I don't plan on abusing it to run it down, but it's tempting to keep it at 100%, QC next summer when I can. There is a free QC near my grocery store, but it always stops at like 92%
2014 Leaf SL

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: SoH dropping fast

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:59 am

pyromancy5 wrote:
powersurge wrote:I have always heard that the batteries like to be at 50 % charge. I have also always thought that draining down to 20% before charging results in a greater strain than recharging at 40-50%????


I don't think this is accurate. I don't know if this is true now, but with older Li batteries, if they weren't fully discharged, the would lose their zero point. Something to do with migration of free radicals and dendrite formation... not sure I understand it all, but I believe migration happens more under full charge , not when empty.


It is very likely true. The battery's best charge capacity is dependent upon having as near a perfect balance of the two compounds that represent the anode and cathode. As the compounds swap back and forth, the ability to regenerate back to a balanced level is reduced. Now this is a VERY simplified answer but the ideology remains the same.

Obviously leaving SOC near 50% all the time is not beneficial to range unless you have a LOT of charging opportunities and very short drives. So the question becomes is it better to go deeper into discharge or recharge?

Well, since we want the battery to be recharged, I have to say the higher the SOC the better as long as

You drive it daily, One way commute reduces SOC to 80% or less.

Another thing to keep in mind; I charge fully nearly every day due to the amount of driving I have to do and experience little as far as abnormal degradation. Now we can talk about the weather but if ONLY comparing cars IN MY LOCAL AREA, the facts remain the same.

Point 2; You car makes a big deal of letting you know that you should charge when SOC is low. Do not ignore your battery warnings.

ALWAYS PLUG IN IMMEDIATELY TO GAIN ENOUGH CHARGE TO TURN OFF THOSE WARNINGS ASAP.

Does this mean stopping 10 miles from your house to plug in when LBW comes on? Well, since I don't do that, I am not going to recommend that anyone else do that either but I do plug in for an hour or two when I get home no matter what time of day it is...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pyromancy5
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 337249

Re: SoH dropping fast

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:25 am

DaveinOlyWA, you make some interesting points. I'm under the assumption that there are all these warnings because it's a serious PITA if you get stranded without any juice in the Bat. I'm sure there is some extra capacity that we cannot access for anti-bricking, but I don't think it has anything to do with battery chemistry. It's all about driver behavior, concerns for stranded customers, and I really think they went over board on the warnings. The red light, like an ICE car, you always wonder how long that thing has been on. The initial message is nice to have, but that thing will really start to get annoying if I am on that last 10 miles home and I have 20% left. Without knowing what kind of damage an empty Li battery is inflicting on itself, I'm inclined to think it's all babysitting.
2014 Leaf SL

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: SoH dropping fast

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:15 am

pyromancy5 wrote:DaveinOlyWA, you make some interesting points. I'm under the assumption that there are all these warnings because it's a serious PITA if you get stranded without any juice in the Bat. I'm sure there is some extra capacity that we cannot access for anti-bricking, but I don't think it has anything to do with battery chemistry. It's all about driver behavior, concerns for stranded customers, and I really think they went over board on the warnings. The red light, like an ICE car, you always wonder how long that thing has been on. The initial message is nice to have, but that thing will really start to get annoying if I am on that last 10 miles home and I have 20% left. Without knowing what kind of damage an empty Li battery is inflicting on itself, I'm inclined to think it's all babysitting.


I notice there is no warning when you park it with 85% SOC

Why is there not a "Please drive another 5 miles if you plan to be here for an extended period of time"

The reality is much more likely to be engineers using the mindset of a lifelong gasser who ran the gas tank down because in their mind, the only risk was running out of gas. Anyone who can drive a car without noticing the gas gauge is someone I do not want to share the road with.

Since this is an EV and there are other repercussions besides being stranded, they decided the extra warning was warranted...or in our case, the extra 3 warnings.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pyromancy5
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 337249

Re: SoH dropping fast

Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:31 am

I checked the carfax again that came with the car. In service date of 6/25/2014.
2014 Leaf SL

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12310
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: SoH dropping fast

Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:20 am

pyromancy5 wrote:I checked the carfax again that came with the car. In service date of 6/25/2014.


That bodes well. 2014 was LEAF best year so likelihood of long time on the lot is reduced.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pyromancy5
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 337249

Re: SoH dropping fast

Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:46 am

Yup, mfg in 03/14, so it couldn't have sat too long.
2014 Leaf SL

BuckMkII
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: SoH dropping fast

Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:33 am

pyromancy5 wrote:Yup, mfg in 03/14, so it couldn't have sat too long.

Knowing the name of the dealer from Carfax, you could look up the actual weather history for that town in April, May and June of 2014 and see exactly how warm the weather was while it was on the lot, if that level of trivia interests you.

I like Weather Underground (wunderground.com) for this. For any location, you can scroll down to the "almanac" link and choose your dates. For example, in the week before your car was sold, Athens GA had temps in the mid-90s:

https://www.wunderground.com/history/ai ... reqdb.wmo=
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

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