Is an unlocked, powered up outlet free game?

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rainnw

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
283
Location
Seattle
There hasn't been much talk (from what i gather) regarding what could possibly be a sore issue.

There are plenty of powered up, unlocked, and available outlets in various parking garages and parking lots. We even have a couple dual gang 20A 110V circuits scattered about in our work parking garage.

At what point is plugging in considered theft? is $0.50 of electricity usage a felony? How have people made arrangements with employers regarding this?

I'd imagine since it is unmetered, most would be a bit nervous to grant free access.
 
Your only going to draw 1.5KW/hour maximum from those outlets (13A @ 120V), so @ .15/KWh, you are looking at less than .25 per hour cost. an entire 8 hour work day would cost $2.00, I don't think anyone would notice on most commercial bills.
 
I can see the headline now......
LEAF owner charged with electricity theft.... In SoCal that could only mean one thing.
All you need is a politically motivated, anti EV, District Attorney, and there ya go! ;)
There may be some confusion until everyone recognizes that the LEAF doesn't come in the color GREEN.

Pot dispensary owner pleads guilty to electricity theft

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_15106345

"This case is a perfect of how illegal marijuana dispensaries spawn additional crimes,"
District Attorney Steve Cooley said in a statement.
 
rainnw said:
There hasn't been much talk (from what i gather) regarding what could possibly be a sore issue.

There are plenty of powered up, unlocked, and available outlets in various parking garages and parking lots. We even have a couple dual gang 20A 110V circuits scattered about in our work parking garage.

At what point is plugging in considered theft? is $0.50 of electricity usage a felony? How have people made arrangements with employers regarding this?

I'd imagine since it is unmetered, most would be a bit nervous to grant free access.
If you are parking at a location where a power outlet is prominently located, unlocked, and has no signage to the contrary, I believe that it would be perfectly acceptable to plug into it (think about motor block heaters in Canada and Alaska).

It would be the same as going to a cafe, sitting down, opening up my laptop, seeing an unsecured wireless access point, and connecting to it to use the Internet (at least in Oregon that is legal, YMMV). Unless there is either a notification to the contrary or a reasonable effort has been made to secure the wireless access point, it is considered to be for public access.

Now, if you park at a business and they later find out and request that you no longer plug in, and you keep plugging in, you can definitely receive a citation for trespassing, if not theft of services also. If I plugged in somewhere and was later told not to, I would probably use it as an opportunity to educate the business owner on electric vehicles and how I could help them develop a plan for charging to increase business (and profits)!

The owner of the business I work at is excited about me driving an electric car and told me I was more than welcome to plug into any of the various outlets around the complex. If a customer stopped by in an electric car, the welcome mat would be rolled out for them to plug in!
 
this reminds me of a situation. here in Lacey, most of the downtown area has trees lining the street. problem is the trees aneare surrounded by concrete sidewalks. next to each tree is an outlet.

the outlets are used to power electric blowers, trimmers, etc. well, since there was no sign that said i could not plug in, i did once just to see if it could be done.

now, none of these outlets are near parking lots so it was a bit of a stretch to plug in....a 50 foot extension cord stretch to be exact!!
 
Step 1: Print up stickers that say "Electric Vehicle Charging"
(is that a statement of permission, or simply an observation?)

Step 2: Find power outlet in public infrastructure

Step 3: Carefully look around for webcams

Step 4: If no webcams, put sticker above outlet

Step 5: Plug in!

:D
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
this reminds me of a situation. here in Lacey, most of the downtown area has trees lining the street. problem is the trees aneare surrounded by concrete sidewalks. next to each tree is an outlet.

the outlets are used to power electric blowers, trimmers, etc. well, since there was no sign that said i could not plug in, i did once just to see if it could be done.

We had a similar situation here in San Diego, where street outlets installed for a farmer's market area in downtown Ocean Beach were being "plundered" for electricity, so the city is installing tamper-proof outlets.

TT
 
50' extension cord is pushing it. But for the length of the included evse cord I would plug in at the tree.

How exactly were outlets in SD getting plundered? Were RVs parking for the day and wheezing all the juice?
 
Just plugging into someone else's outlet (commercial or private), without the consent of the owner, management or municipality regardless of how little it costs is inconsiderate. How would anyone here feel if someone just plugged into one of your home exterior outlets? You pull in from work and there's an extension cord going from your front porch to someone's hedgetrimmers. "Hey Bill, just needed a little 'lectricity, I'll be done in a second."

I don't think it matters how little it costs, it isn't your parking garage. Be polite and ask permission first.

Don't know if it's considered theft but if you do it without permission, I would think it to be disrespectful and selfish.
 
Carlos said:
"This case is a perfect of how illegal marijuana dispensaries spawn additional crimes,"
District Attorney Steve Cooley said in a statement.
Solution: Legalize pot :mrgreen: As a legitimate business they'll get their own utilities, pay their own bills, and pay taxes.

Train said:
How would anyone here feel if someone just plugged into one of your home exterior outlets?
Joke's on them - it's on a switch :)

But I agree - making a reasonable attempt to ask first is the very least you could do. However, if the outlet is attached to a business that I'm patronizing I'd feel much less guilty about it. Not quite entitled but at least I'm indirectly compensating them for it.
=Smidge=
 
Using power from an outlet without asking is stealing plain and simple, it cost that business per kwh, it's not free. The outlets are not there to charge an EV they are for private business use. Justifying it's use as a patron is flat wrong, as wrong as stealing items from their inventory. In an emergency with no options if one used an outlet one should tell the business and offer to pay for the power. When I go to a gas station and buy gum it does not entitle me the right to take gas from a pump that may not be reset. For those that do this please don't justify it as not stealing, it's not your power and you did not pay for it, EVs do not come with an entitlement pass so let's not give them a bad name.
 
There is probably some legal precedence, and I'll bet the rights
of the provider of what comes out of the outlet come first,
the owner of the outlet second, and the unauthorized taker/user
a distant third. (Excepting some life or death immediate danger.)

Is opportunistically plugging into a receptacle for electricity
any different than;
- downloading music?
- watching cable TV if you haven't paid for it?
- taking water from a hose?
- using a public phone with a missing coin door (archaic :D )

I can't see where ,"I got mine (electric car)" can be morally
converted into, "And now I'm gonna take yours (resource)."

Honesty is what you do when you think someone is watching you
-- Note: May or may not include "God" and/or ancestors.

Character is what you do when you know no one is watching.
 
Rokeby said:
There is probably some legal precedence, and I'll bet the rights
of the provider of what comes out of the outlet come first,
the owner of the outlet second, and the unauthorized taker/user
a distant third. (Excepting some life or death immediate danger.)

Is opportunistically plugging into a receptacle for electricity
any different than;
- downloading music?
- watching cable TV if you haven't paid for it?
- taking water from a hose?
- using a public phone with a missing coin door (archaic :D )

I can't see where ,"I got mine (electric car)" can be morally
converted into, "And now I'm gonna take yours (resource)."

Honesty is what you do when you know someone is watching you
-- Note: May or may not include "God" and/or ancestors.

Character is what you do when you know no one is watching.


Taking anything that is not yours is stealing, some people just like to find ways to justify it or make it seem like it's not. I know as a fact a parking garage where some EV folk plugged into a 120 outlet often without asking, based on a rough guess I would bet that cost that business an extra $50 per moth minimum. It's not stealing though, the garage owner should be happy to pay that extra $600. Don't be a you know what, ask to charge or leave money. If someone cuts your cord for charging without asking on private property then don't cry either. For those that think it's ok, please post your address and leave an extension cord available for all of us to charge.
 
Using power from an outlet without asking is stealing plain and simple, it cost that business per kwh, it's not free. The outlets are not there to charge an EV they are for private business use. Justifying it's use as a patron is flat wrong, as wrong as stealing items from their inventory. In an emergency with no options if one used an outlet one should tell the business and offer to pay for the power. When I go to a gas station and buy gum it does not entitle me the right to take gas from a pump that may not be reset. For those that do this please don't justify it as not stealing, it's not your power and you did not pay for it, EVs do not come with an entitlement pass so let's not give them a bad name.

Yep.
 
Would you charge here? It is a prominently displayed power outlet without any locking mechanism in an area where people regularly plug into them (and the cords run to vehicles). I'm not sure why "charging" wouldn't be allowed based on some of the statements on this thread... I don't see why this would be any different then sitting down in a library or restaurant and using a public, unsecured wireless network for internet access...

18280262_006e8a5958_o.jpg
 
If someone else doe sit I can? If someone keys your car for parking close to theirs can I key you car as well? Is it labeled free public electricity? Outlets are in places like this for service equipment and other uses by the owner who pays for the electricity, likely not a charity electricity provider as well. What twisted logic do people have that makes them think that if something is not locked it is there for the taking. I really can't believe the implied justifications I'm hearing here. It's not a public use outlet or water fountain. Can I plug into someones unlocked outlet on their garage? Can I fill my tanker truck up at fire hydrants? Go to a lake on a golf course and take water when I like? I suppose since you can't see electricity or the dollars coming out of the socket then it's "all good" and ok. Perhaps charge point should just give us all free electricity everywhere.

Are we really having a debate over something so clear cut or are people so screwed up in America that they thing taking something that does not belong to them is no longer stealing? By the way, many cars have gas caps that don't lock. I suppose it's ok to suck some gas out of a car in a parking lot as well.
 
Would you charge here? It is a prominently displayed power outlet without any locking mechanism in an area where people regularly plug into them (and the cords run to vehicles). I'm not sure why "charging" wouldn't be allowed based on some of the statements on this thread... I don't see why this would be any different then sitting down in a library or restaurant and using a public, unsecured wireless network for internet access...

Wow. You can't distinguish the difference? The library allows you to do this. It invites you to use their services.

Regarding the outlet pictured above...

You don't have permission.

It's NOT your outlet.
 
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