rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:14 pm

I've had this 2014 S w/ charge package since February. Nearly equal mix of local and highway driving totaling only about 5K miles since purchase. Last night I drove about 50 miles, recharged, attended an event, and then headed home. Ran completely out of power about 1 mile from home. I could have stopped close to home at the local pub and added a couple kW, had a brought along the charger.

I'm curious about a few things. Of the 50 miles outbound, about 40 are highway at around 60-65 MPH. Little change in elevation. On the way out the SOC went from 87% to 44%. I took a slightly different route to the interstate on the way home, which added around 5 miles. Nonetheless a SOC of 58% when I left for home was not enough. I thought with 43% used on the way out, 58% should have been enough to get me home. On the last trip it also seemed like the return home used a greater fraction of the total charge. Wind perhaps? Or maybe it was the fog droplets. I recognize driving at below 15% could be avoided with proper planning.

I charged at a ClipperCreek charger that had a sticker say it could charge at 70 or 80 amps. I left it at the default 70. The instructions mentioned 70 amps for 2012/2013 Leafs and 80 for Tesla and others. Could I increase to 80 for my car?

Lastly the SOC readout was not increasing as usual during charging. At some point I turned the car off and then on again. When I did, the SOC had gone from 50 to 58%. Is power cycling ever needed to update the SOC display?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:15 pm

Lastly the SOC readout was not increasing as usual during charging. At some point I turned the car off and then on again. When I did, the SOC had gone from 50 to 58%. Is power cycling ever needed to update the SOC display?


This is likely a symptom of whatever the problem is. No, cycling the power isn't necessary to update SOC. You may have an onboard charger issue, a bad cell in the pack, or...?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

2k1Toaster
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Leaf Number: 420903

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:55 pm

The main interestate highway where we are runs North/South mostly and looks to be flat. When driving on it, there are very few little tiny hills, and mostly "level ground". However, it is not level. In reality it slopes so that the North end of town is higher than the south end of town and over the 12-15 miles of driving you can use 20% going South and 50% going North. They look no different. Only with some data monitoring like Google Tracks (I think they obsoleted that now) where it can show elevation over time, will you see this type of pattern.

That would be my guess. Also, going 65mph is not conducive to good mileage. My 20/50 numbers are going 75mph+, but most people tend to keep at 55mph or below in the Leaf it seems.

To your question, everything effects it. A moister road will reduce your range. Colder at night means less pressure in your tires, reduces your range. Elevation change and speed can be killers.
2013 Nissan Leaf SV with every option
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rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:55 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Lastly the SOC readout was not increasing as usual during charging. At some point I turned the car off and then on again. When I did, the SOC had gone from 50 to 58%. Is power cycling ever needed to update the SOC display?


This is likely a symptom of whatever the problem is. No, cycling the power isn't necessary to update SOC. You may have an onboard charger issue, a bad cell in the pack, or...?


Will keep my eye on this. Around town I can get about 80 miles on a full charge and all 12 bars are showing. Hope all is fine.

rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:59 pm

2k1Toaster wrote:
To your question, everything effects it. A moister road will reduce your range. Colder at night means less pressure in your tires, reduces your range. Elevation change and speed can be killers.


These types of factors plus the slightly longer route home probably did it. I'm likely to repeat this trip a couple times each month. Going to keep seeing if I notice any patterns in range and efficiency.

alozzy
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Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:12 pm

What were your start and end points? Check out https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/ to see what the elevation change is between end points. Also, if you select the "LEAF Beta" profile it will show the estimated kWh energy usage for both legs (to reverse the direction, use the double arrows just to the right of the "Route thru Superchargers" button)

Assuming 20 kWh of useable pack energy, here's the efficiency estimates:

43% on way out, or 8.6 kWh, over 50 miles - roughly 5.8 miles per kWh
58% on way back, or 11.6 kWh over 55 miles - roughly 4.7 miles per kWh

Your efficiency on the "way out" was really good. Less so on the return trip, but still decent.

I would guess there's a net elevation difference between end points. But, perhaps it was colder on the way home? Colder air is more dense, so more air drag, especially at highway speeds. Could have also been windy.
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cwerdna
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Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:00 am

rawlins02 wrote:I charged at a ClipperCreek charger that had a sticker say it could charge at 70 or 80 amps. I left it at the default 70. The instructions mentioned 70 amps for 2012/2013 Leafs and 80 for Tesla and others. Could I increase to 80 for my car?

70 or 80 amps doesn't matter.

Please understand the concepts at https://www.clippercreek.com/charging-times-chart/. Max the '13 and '14 Leaf SV and SL (+ S w/charge package) can draw is 6.6 kW from the wall over level 2 (6600 watts / 240 volts = 27.5 amps). A lot of commercial power is only 208 volts, so you won't be able to get the full 6.6 kW. On my work Chargepoint EVSEs (rated at 30 amps max: 30 amps * 208 volts = 6,240 watts = 6.24 kW), it seems like my car draws between 5.7 to 6.0 kW, typically. I've seen it go as high as 6.2 kW. I have no means of measuring the supply voltage.

The Leaf's acceptance rate is the bottleneck when on an L2 EVSE that's 32+ amps.

The Clipper Creek unit is not a charger. It's an EVSE. See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668.

In the future, if you're going to cut things that close, you should use Leaf Spy.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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powersurge
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Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:22 am

This situation is an example of someone who tried to drive the Leaf farther than it is capable. 90 miles is way to far to drive, and expect to make it on one charge, especially if a 2014 has some degradation. Plan your trips to include a charge for the way back...

Also, that type of driving is not good for the battery. Do not let the car go to the point of battery failure...

LeftieBiker
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Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:49 am

I find it odd that everyone else seems to be ignoring the odd behavior of the SOC display. I'm still wondering if there is a charger or pack issue.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Phatcat73
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Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:24 am

Check the wind speed for your night. 15 mile tailwind then headwind could cause this discrepancy.
2016 SV; purchased 20-Jan-17, <5k, 98% SOH; 01-Apr-17
2013 SV; purchased 6-March-13 44k, 81% SOH; 3-Apr-17
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 19k, 83% SOH; 30-Mar-17
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