rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:52 am

alozzy wrote:What were your start and end points? Check out https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/ to see what the elevation change is between end points. Also, if you select the "LEAF Beta" profile it will show the estimated kWh energy usage for both legs (to reverse the direction, use the double arrows just to the right of the "Route thru Superchargers" button)

Assuming 20 kWh of useable pack energy, here's the efficiency estimates:

43% on way out, or 8.6 kWh, over 50 miles - roughly 5.8 miles per kWh
58% on way back, or 11.6 kWh over 55 miles - roughly 4.7 miles per kWh

Your efficiency on the "way out" was really good. Less so on the return trip, but still decent.

I would guess there's a net elevation difference between end points. But, perhaps it was colder on the way home? Colder air is more dense, so more air drag, especially at highway speeds. Could have also been windy.



Amherst, MA to Brattleboro, VT. Trip planner says:

Distance 41.7 miles
Driving Time 0:50
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:50
Total Energy Used 9.2 kWh
37 RM
Average Efficiency 220 Wh/mile
Net Elevation Change -66 feet

As @Phatcat73 mentioned, there indeed was a tailwind out and headwind back, although obs say at only 5 MPH or less. But as I mentioned it was foggy and cooler on way home. Longer route, foggy, cooler, and wet road seem to be major influences.
Last edited by rawlins02 on Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:02 am

cwerdna wrote:
rawlins02 wrote:I charged at a ClipperCreek charger that had a sticker say it could charge at 70 or 80 amps. I left it at the default 70. The instructions mentioned 70 amps for 2012/2013 Leafs and 80 for Tesla and others. Could I increase to 80 for my car?

70 or 80 amps doesn't matter.

Please understand the concepts at https://www.clippercreek.com/charging-times-chart/. Max the '13 and '14 Leaf SV and SL (+ S w/charge package) can draw is 6.6 kW from the wall over level 2 (6600 watts / 240 volts = 27.5 amps). A lot of commercial power is only 208 volts, so you won't be able to get the full 6.6 kW. On my work Chargepoint EVSEs (rated at 30 amps max: 30 amps * 208 volts = 6,240 watts = 6.24 kW), it seems like my car draws between 5.7 to 6.0 kW, typically. I've seen it go as high as 6.2 kW. I have no means of measuring the supply voltage.

The Leaf's acceptance rate is the bottleneck when on an L2 EVSE that's 32+ amps.

The Clipper Creek unit is not a charger. It's an EVSE. See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668.

In the future, if you're going to cut things that close, you should use Leaf Spy.



This is helpful. Will do required homework on the ins and outs of charging. ClipperCreek unit did indeed say it was 208 volts. If I'm not mistaken, LeafSpy must be run from a smartphone. I don't intend on cutting it that close ever again.

I've charged at a Level 2 EV Plug (J1772)s at Athol, MA public library that seems to recharge a bit faster. But maybe not.
Last edited by rawlins02 on Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:14 am

powersurge wrote:This situation is an example of someone who tried to drive the Leaf farther than it is capable. 90 miles is way to far to drive, and expect to make it on one charge, especially if a 2014 has some degradation. Plan your trips to include a charge for the way back...

Also, that type of driving is not good for the battery. Do not let the car go to the point of battery failure...


In my first thread post I mentioned that I recharged near the destination. Not fully, but in about 40 minutes SOC went from 45 to 58%. Based on charge use on way to destination of ~43%, I assumed 58% would be enough to get me home. I have all 12 bars on battery meter and charging specs suggest my battery holds close to 20 kWh when full. I was unaware that this type of driving, assuming I'd arrive home with about 15% charge, is not good for the battery. Too bad the ESEV I added charge from was located more than a mile away from final destination, and thus I could not easily leave the car plugged in during the event.

silverone
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:29 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2017
Location: Eastern OH

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:54 am

rawlins02 wrote:In my first thread post I mentioned that I recharged near the destination. Not fully, but in about 40 minutes SOC went from 45 to 58%. Based on charge use on way to destination of ~43%, I assumed 58% would be enough to get me home. I have all 12 bars on battery meter and charging specs suggest my battery holds close to 20 kWh when full. I was unaware that this type of driving, assuming I'd arrive home with about 15% charge, is not good for the battery. Too bad the ESEV I added charge from was located more than a mile away from final destination, and thus I could not easily leave the car plugged in during the event.


Sounds like LeafSpy will be a good addition for you. I'm glad you added that you only charged for 40 minutes, as that makes sense that you'd gain about 40 GIDs in 40 minutes@ 6KW 208V. No need to question whether there is something wrong with charging. In addition, LeafSpy will give a better estimate of miles remaining to Low Battery Warning, etc. than you can get from the onboard SOC meters. Using this additional data, I've been able to end a trip at 12 GIDs with more confidence.
2013 SL with Premium package - build date 5/13. 12 bar car with 45,000 miles and counting... Trying to nurse 12 bars to 60,000 miles and beyond if possible!

2014 Volt - 46,000+ miles

Graffi
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:01 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414757
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:56 am

For your next try at that trip limit your highway speed to 55 mph and let us know the difference. I think you will be very surprised at the result.

Ever since we got our Leaf we would drive 84 mile R/T on a single charge about once every month. Almost all of it Freeway. We would limit our speed to 60 mph going up in the evening so as to not block traffic (we were able to use the right lane of the two lane carpool lanes). On the way home at about 10 pm. we would limit our speed to 55 mph. We always got home before VLBW, even when we were at almost 50,000 miles on the Leaf.
2013 SL Metalic Slate - We LOVE our Leaf
MFG 08/13 Dlv 09/06/13 @ 10 mi
# 77 100 mile club
# 10 200 km club

2017 Tesla S 75D Pearl White
Delivered 5/16/17 @ 900 mi
Tesla Model 3 on order awaiting 200+ mile range Nissan Leaf

Darryl
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:15 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Mar 2015
Location: New Orleans

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:52 am

rawlins02 wrote: Of the 50 miles outbound, about 40 are highway at around 60-65 MPH. Little change in elevation. On the way out the SOC went from 87% to 44%. I took a slightly different route to the interstate on the way home, which added around 5 miles.


As others have said speed is a big issue. I would think that on the way home you were able to go faster than on the highway trip earlier.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL w 54900 miles SOH 60%. Lost four bars.

alozzy
Posts: 667
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:06 am

Where's everyone's sense of adventure! The OP ran out of available pack charge only a mile from home. From that adventure, he/she now has a better sense of the range limits of the car.

There's not much harm in very occasionally going to VLBW, I just wouldn't make a habit of it. The most important thing is to immediately charge the pack after VLBW to 30% SOC or higher.

Can't imagine enjoying my Leaf if I had constant range anxiety and only ever ran the car to 20% SOC. Just enjoy the car...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:46 am

If I'm not mistaken, LeafSpy must be run from a smartphone.


It doesn't have to have cell service. I used a $30 kyocera Event when I first got LeafSpy.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:18 pm

Graffi wrote:For your next try at that trip limit your highway speed to 55 mph and let us know the difference. I think you will be very surprised at the result.

Ever since we got our Leaf we would drive 84 mile R/T on a single charge about once every month. Almost all of it Freeway. We would limit our speed to 60 mph going up in the evening so as to not block traffic (we were able to use the right lane of the two lane carpool lanes). On the way home at about 10 pm. we would limit our speed to 55 mph. We always got home before VLBW, even when we were at almost 50,000 miles on the Leaf.


Yes I'll try that. I'm finding keeping speed low has been a challenge without cruise control. I know what you mean about blocking traffic. It would be nice if others would not speed right up to my bumper at 75-80 MPH before swerving into the left lane and around. Fortunately the interstate is not heavily traveled on weekday evenings.

rawlins02
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Location: western Massachusetts

Re: Ran out of juice last night: a few questions about the trip

Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:21 pm

Darryl wrote:
rawlins02 wrote: Of the 50 miles outbound, about 40 are highway at around 60-65 MPH. Little change in elevation. On the way out the SOC went from 87% to 44%. I took a slightly different route to the interstate on the way home, which added around 5 miles.


As others have said speed is a big issue. I would think that on the way home you were able to go faster than on the highway trip earlier.


I think I got a bit careless at outset of trip home and in fact went above 70 MPH at times.

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