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Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:37 pm
by bdgriner
I have my Leaf Spy working today. It was really easy to get working. My hats off to the developer. They did a great job.

I now have to start collecting data. My first screen copies I cant figure out how to post and reading the FYIs, looks like I will need to get permissions. Anyway, the first set of data taken today have me concerned. I collected this data between the two low level alarms and did a quick 3 mile test drive. The two numbers that had me concerned are SOH=67% and HX= 61.55% . GIDs is 24.1%. I'm charging the car and put a few miles on it to collect more data.

Any suggestions on a good website that provides more detail explains of these values? The help screen on the app is a starting point but was hoping to find more detail.

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:47 pm
by LeftieBiker
This site is probably the best place to learn about things like SOH (which is effectively equivalent to remaining battery capacity as a percentage) and Hx (more like a momentary snapshot of the SOH - Hx varies more over short periods than does SOH). Look for the Leafspy topics here.

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:11 pm
by ydrape
You can also look at this site for a complement to Leaf Spy Pro Help file.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:43 am
by cwerdna
bdgriner wrote:The two numbers that had me concerned are SOH=67% and HX= 61.55% . GIDs is 24.1%.
...
Any suggestions on a good website that provides more detail explains of these values? The help screen on the app is a starting point but was hoping to find more detail.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Glossary

For me, I don't care about gid %. I don't know the denominator. I'd rather look at the actual number of gids.

Regarding SOH and Hx, see viewtopic.php?p=497564#p497564. Turbo3 is the Leaf Spy author. Nissan AFAIK has never released any public documentation on traffic on the CAN bus or anything that Leaf Spy retrieves.

The most comprehensive and up to date docs are in the app help. You can email the dev for a copy of it in PDF form.
bdgriner wrote:I haven’t lost any capacity bars on my display.

This is impossible if those SOH and Hx values are correct. You are probably down 2 or 3 bars. Again, it's the thinnest bars all the way on the right. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File ... bars_s.jpg is an example of a fully charged 3 bar loser. Please check again. How many capacity bars do you have visible, including the red ones?

How many gids (numeric not %) do you get to on a full charge?

bdgriner wrote:I’ve been driving EVs for 5 years and had my most recent Leaf for 2.
...
I have the 30KW Leaf and when I recharge, I get between 19 and 21KW on my charger.
...
It’s one of the first 30KW models

As I said, your unit usage is incorrect. Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". What comes out of the wall is over time is also measured in kWh.

kW and kWh are very different metrics. It's the same as confusing gallons with horsepower. Think of kW = horsepower, kWh = gallons.

If one charges at 1 kW (or 1000 watts) for 6 hours, 6 kWh came out of the wall. If it's at 6 kW for 1 hour, it's also 6 kWh. If it's 1 watt for 6000 hours, it's also 6 kWh.

One pays for electricity at home in cents per kWh. There are a few utilities w/residential plans where they not only bill per kWh but also have demand charges, but that's rare and complicates calculations. (Demand charges aren't unusual on many commercial plans.)

1 hp = ~0.746 kW. And, many .gov sites say 1 gallon of gasoline has 33.7 kWh of energy content.

You have a '16 Leaf SV or SL? Build month? That's on the driver's side door sticker.

viewtopic.php?p=508397#p508397 who also used incorrect units is down 3 bars on his 30 kWh Leaf.

ydrape wrote:<span>You can also look at this site for a complement to <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Turbo3-Leaf-Spy-Pro/dp/B00PMLTPN0/?tag=myelecarfor-20&" class="interlinkr" target="_blank">Leaf Spy Pro</a> Help file.</span>

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro

It is unfortunately out of date compared to the app but it isn't useless.

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:07 pm
by bdgriner
Big thanks Cwerdna. You gave me the thread with the issue I’m having with my 30 kWh battery pack. The key info is below. My question know is at what point has the battery degraded to the point of needing replacement?

2016 SV with build date of 10/2015

Fully charged, LeafSpy says 19.1kWh capacity. Significantly below name plate of 30 kWh. (Understand it was never 30 kWh but suspect is over 25% loss already)


AHr: 52.96
SOH: 66% 394.77V
Hx: 60.83%
odo: 27k
3 QCs
823 L1/L2s
242 GIDs

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:55 am
by SageBrush
johnlocke wrote:On the 2016 Leaf the LBW warning is fixed at 50 GID's (About 4KWH remaining) VBLW is fixed as well at about half the value of LBW.

Do these kWh values include the inaccessible battery reserve ?

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:58 am
by cwerdna
bdgriner wrote:Big thanks Cwerdna. You gave me the thread with the issue I’m having with my 30 kWh battery pack. The key info is below. My question know is at what point has the battery degraded to the point of needing replacement?

2016 SV with build date of 10/2015

Fully charged, LeafSpy says 19.1kWh capacity. Significantly below name plate of 30 kWh. (Understand it was never 30 kWh but suspect is over 25% loss already)


AHr: 52.96
SOH: 66% 394.77V
Hx: 60.83%
odo: 27k
3 QCs
823 L1/L2s
242 GIDs

No prob. I haven't been able to respond very promptly as I'm on vacation in Japan so there's a considerable time difference and my priority here is to sightsee/do things unique to Japan (my posts about Tokyo Motor Show/Japan commenced at viewtopic.php?p=509704#p509704) vs. being holed up my hotel room.

First off, I don't put any value in assertions that a pack has xx.xx kWh of capacity based upon Leaf Spy's calculated figures and default of 77.5 watt hours per gid. See viewtopic.php?p=472552#p472552 and viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092. Nissan does not let the user access all 30 kWh anyway. It's probably around 27 kWh on a new battery that's user accessible.

From your SOH figures, you're probably down 3 capacity bars. You need to be down 4 capacity bars before the 8 year/100K capacity warranty (on 30 kWh Leafs) to get it replaced . Again, please refer to the thinnest bars all the way on the right. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File ... bars_s.jpg is a 3 bar loser and that's what yours probably looks like now.

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:01 am
by cwerdna
SageBrush wrote:
johnlocke wrote:On the 2016 Leaf the LBW warning is fixed at 50 GID's (About 4KWH remaining) VBLW is fixed as well at about half the value of LBW.

Do these kWh values include the inaccessible battery reserve ?

I couldn't care less about the what claimed kWh values are. See my earlier post.

On 24 kWh Leafs, it was asserted at viewtopic.php?p=387707#p387707
TomT wrote:Since LBW and VLBW occur at an absolute fixed energy level (49 and 24 Gids, respectively)

That seems about right, from my experience.

It seems like there's some wonkiness with gids near the top and esp. near the bottom of the battery anyway.

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:15 pm
by SageBrush
cwerdna wrote:I couldn't care less about the what claimed kWh values are.

Whatever. Just assume default Gid/Wh

Or answer in terms of Ahr

Re: Battery Percent Indicator

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:10 pm
by cwerdna
SageBrush wrote:
cwerdna wrote:I couldn't care less about the what claimed kWh values are.

Whatever. Just assume default Gid/Wh

Sure. I suspect most Leaf Spy users don't know about the setting and thus are using the default.

My issue is that with the default of 77.5 watt-hours/gid or whatever other value, we have no idea if the resulting kWh value is accurate at all. Unless you can tell me that Nissan has officially blessed that constant or given us conditions where the result is accurate (e.g. range of gid values where it's valid, battery temperature, battery condition, after certain things have been done or not done to the battery, etc.)...

It really bothers me that so many people are doing so much reading into and inference of values that Leaf Spy (e.g. gids, gids * Wh/gid, SOH and Hx, etc.) renders despite the fact that AFAIK, Nissan has never released any public documentation on them nor acknowledged any of them. Sure, we can compare notes, but to make assertions like "my battery holds x kWh" or 85% SOH must == 15% capacity loss, I'm not that comfortable with. Is it approximately right? Probably, most (?) of the time. Is it exact? Probably not, esp given the numbers move around a bit and can be manipulated a bit, as well.