wlegro
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:16 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 022916
Location: L.A. CA > Eugene, OR

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:43 pm

Dang! There are 9 bars - well, 8-1/2 because the bottom one next to the red zone is like half a bar. Seems like we should be doing better in miles on 9 bars - is that 75% capacity left? We have only till Jan. 31 for it to drop to 8 bars...I wonder what would make that happen since we've never changed our driving and charging habits.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8626
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:30 pm

Leave it charged to 100% when not in use. I assume your climate isn't hot enough to get the pack hot in December... one last bit of bad news: if it's actually cold where you are, the BMS probably won't register another bar loss until Spring. I'm sorry. That would be 9 full bars, as there are no half bars. The first one is worth 15%, so it isn't a uniform drop for all the bars. You have less than 70% capacity left, IIRC.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wlegro
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:16 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 022916
Location: L.A. CA > Eugene, OR

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:21 am

Would discharging it completely renew it? Like you're supposed to (or used to be supposed to) discharge cell phones completely once a month or so. Or would that deplete it further? I think the lowest we've ever let it get is in the high-20 miles.

Well, trying to research this in the forum - seems like full discharge wouldn't have any effect, positive or negative. We always charged it to 100% because we needed the range, and even when it would get down to 50 miles we'd charge it up again in case we needed the full range. It looks like that wasn't a very wise practice. But we didn't have much choice if we were going to use the car for the reasons we bought it - big city driving.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8626
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:46 am

No, that wouldn't work. You can have a new, better battery installed for $6000.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wlegro
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:16 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 022916
Location: L.A. CA > Eugene, OR

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:05 pm

Well, we have to sell it, and given what I've seen of the resale value, we could never get back that $6,000. It's a conundrum - a $37,000 car (minus the tax credit and rebate) that's only 5 years old, and we're looking at having to sell it for what? $2,000 if we're lucky? Who would want such a car? We wish we could keep it, but we simply don't have room, and we can't add on to the carport - and besides it would a constant shuffle of cars parked behind each other.

Hmmm...maybe we could donate it to NPR...

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8626
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:18 pm

With 40 miles of range you should be able to get $5000 for it if it's in good shape otherwise. Look for someone who drives locally, like a retired person or someone who lives near their work.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wlegro
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:16 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 022916
Location: L.A. CA > Eugene, OR

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:23 pm

Well, whaddya know. We took the Leaf in for a checkup - turns out it needed a software update. Who knew? We didn't because Nissan didn't tell us - I guess they leave that up to the dealers unless it's a recall? Anyway, they did the update, cleared the battery's "memory" - I didn't know Li-ion batteries had a memory to be cleared, but the service mgr said the early ones did, up thru 2012. At any rate, when we took it in, it was forecasting 47 miles in Eco; when we picked it up the forecast was 83 miles! They also told us that 45-50 miles is typical of Leafs in this climate - Eugene OR in winter - because of the heater, especially the defroster, which is kind of essential. We have the heat turned way down, use the heated seats and steering wheel.

It will be interesting to see if it performs at that high level all winter, or if it drops back down to the 40s. Still, with one bar gone, 75 miles is pretty good, I guess.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8626
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:59 pm

The update likely didn't affect the car's range one way or the other. It mainly changed how it estimates its range. You may also find that you have less regenerative braking available.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

wlegro
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:16 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 022916
Location: L.A. CA > Eugene, OR

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:46 am

The update likely didn't affect the car's range one way or the other. It mainly changed how it estimates its range. You mat also find that you have less regenerative braking available.


arrgghh! It's always something! So if you're right, we'd see the remaining miles on a given trip decline faster than usual? Like a trip that used up 20 miles would now use up, say, 40? And the miles gained coasting down hills wouldn't be as many? Now that I think of it, that recalculation was the point of a software update years ago - one that I thought I'd gotten. Is it something that needs to be done more than once?

I drove from the dealership to our house - 4.5 miles, most of it pretty flat, the last mile of it uphill, the last 1/4 mile steep uphill - virtually the same kind of climbing we did to our house in Los Angeles, and there was a similar substantial drop in estimated miles in that last bit. So the estimated miles was 83 when I left and 64 when I arrived home - about what I would expect but better than before the update, when I would have left with 47 miles and arrived home with 25. No heat or defroster going.

Listen to what the service guy told me: The battery is guaranteed for 10 years. I told him 5. He was condescending, insisting on 10. Went to check it out - came back and weaseled himself into saying 5 years, that that was what he'd meant all along but I just hadn't understood. I think he'd been thinking of the drive system, not the battery itself.

I was also puzzled by his claim that they'd cleared the battery's memory - not something I thought had to be done with Li-ions, but he claimed it was necessary for the 2011 and 2012 batteries. But those are still Li-ions. I know the battery was improved for 2013 - I don't recall reading anything like this about them. As far as I know, that battery doesn't have memory that has to be cleared any more than phone batteries do - so why would he say that? I asked him about the conflicting things I've read about preserving battery life, especially charging only to 80%, minimizing the length of time it's at that 80% by timing it so it reaches the charge you need about an hour before you need it; minimizing DC quick charging. He said none of that stuff matters. I don't believe him. Since the distances in Eugene are so short, and traffic is ridiculously light, with well-timed signals, I think we'll just start doing the 80% charge, just in case it works.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8626
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:30 am

The "battery's memory" may mean the digital memory in the battery management system, aka "BMS." You are right in that lithium batteries don't develop a memory effect. Service people can drive you mad with their half-right (?), half-gibberish claims. Don't get too upset about the rapidly dropping range estimate. We all have to deal with that, and it isn't likely that you actually lost any real range. The car just isn't lying about it quite as consistently. ;-)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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