LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:57 am

So yesterday I did my first long drive with our new 2018 Leaf. I will list all the data I have and then I’m curious if this is in line with what you guys think is normal.

Trip is 100 miles. When we bought car this trip was kind of a measuring stick for us. It’s a trip we do 4-6 times a year so not a huge deal to just take ICE but at same time, this was one reason we didn’t buy prior generation Leaf. Wanted to at least be able to do this trip. There will be at least another 6-10 trips similar distance for us in a year and doing this without a charge up seemed like minimum for us for electric vehicle.

Outside temp- 34 to 42
Wind- pretty windy and gusty at times. Cross wind most of the time. Fighting it for 1/4 of trip both ways because it changed so it was directly at us but never directly behind us. 15-20 mph plus gusts up to 30 or so.

Heater- pre warmed car at start of trip while plugged in. Then ran it in defrost mode because of fog on first 1/3 of trip. Turned heater off when I could and ran it with partial recirculating mode. Seemed like got 3.0 MPK when heat was on normal but when conserving it more got up to 4.0 and averages 3.4 for trip. Kept it around 60 degrees so not warm but OK with a jacket on.

No use of heated seats or steering

Rain 1/4 of time so windshield wiper use then

Radio on medium low volume 85% of time

Average of 500 pounds total cargo including driver and passengers

Speed - expressway 70-75 for 25%, back roads at 55-60 for 60% of time. Slower speed side roads at 30-40 MPH for 15% of time.

Overall- felt like I was using minimal heat, minimal radio volume and driving slower and taking more back roads vs expressway compared to “normal” way I would drive. Got 3.4 average MPK which is pretty good for higher speeds, rain and heat IMO- at least compared to what I usually get in those conditions when I’m not trying to conserve.

So here is the only disappointing part - got back with 9% range (13 miles maybe?) on guessometer. Got warning on dash as I approached my driveway.

So it “worked” for this trip but barely. Many times of the year it’s much colder or really hot where we will need AC. I conserved everything more than normal yet looks like my useable range is around 100 miles. I would have thought before buying and testing that range would be better than that. The conditions where I could go 150 to me are so rare, that’s a fantasy number. I would think if you told average person that range was 100 miles with this car they would still be surprised / disappointed, because I had to work pretty hard to save energy to get about 110 on what I consider a typical day and I think going 100 was cutting it pretty close considering the consequences of being wrong. I guess the disconnect for me really is this- seems like 3.4 MPK would get me around 136 mile range not 113. Am I doing the math wrong or is the car doing it wrong?

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8927
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:16 pm

No use of heated seats or steering


Why on earth not? They don't rob range noticeably. As for what you did wrong, it was the speed, combined with the wind of course. When conditions are less than optimal, slow down to no more than 65MPH. If it's raining or snowing, then 60MPH should be the upper limit.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

webeleafowners
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:22 pm

I agree. It’s the speed that did you in. I wouldn’t even think of going 75 in the rain. Loss of traction and ability to stop at that speed are significant.

As far as efficiency goes, rain can play a role in reduced range, rolling resistance etc. Obviously speed. It wouldn’t matter wether we are in an ICE vehicle or electric we like to keep it cool in the car when winter travelling but we use seat heaters and heated steering a lot. In our lead I haven’t noticed the seats and steering wheel having much affect on range.

Defrost is not an option. Keep the windows clear at all costs.

Be interesting to see how your next trip goes with cruise control set at 65 and maybe it will be a little warmer.

Thanks for the report though. Good real world contribution to the forum.

Happy Easter.

John.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

cwerdna
Posts: 7930
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:12 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
No use of heated seats or steering


Why on earth not? They don't rob range noticeably. As for what you did wrong, it was the speed, combined with the wind of course. When conditions are less than optimal, slow down to no more than 65MPH. If it's raining or snowing, then 60MPH should be the upper limit.

Exactly!

Use the heated seats and steering wheel to reduce heater use. Heater is a power pig compared to heated seats and steering wheel. Stereo volume has almost no effect. The speed then the heater usage didn't help.

Not sure which trim you have but if the vehicle you have still has the energy monitor display that shows you how many kW are going to the motor, climate control and other, you'll see what we mean. The VAST majority of the power usage is either accelerating or maintaining speed. HVAC is next.

OP should take a look at the 30 kWh range charts at viewtopic.php?t=4295 (there isn't a 40 kWh chart yet) for an idea how much higher speed kills range autonomy.

Tesla has blogged about range vs. speed before such as at https://web.archive.org/web/20120510175 ... -and-range and https://web.archive.org/web/20120530005 ... -and-range.

And yes, rain will reduce efficiency. The low temps should also yield temporarily reduced battery capacity.

OP should also look at these about EPA tests (mainly geared for ICEVs and measuring mileage but EVs are run thru these cycles to determine range, as well):
https://web.archive.org/web/20100111052 ... es-feature - written before Leaf existed
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml - look at all the tabs and esp. note the average speeds of each test cycle
https://jalopnik.com/how-fuel-economy-i ... 1716232721

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:47 pm

I thought I replied to this but not seeing it now.

Heated seats I use for increased range when I’m alone or with one passwnger. Not useful when people are in back seat because if I use those to be comfortable at a lower temp, well I’m not the type to let my kids sit cold in the back while I’m warm. The point of having heat is to be comfortable. Rear seat heat isn’t an option on 2018. I have SL with every option. Also, since I barely made it home, I’m glad I didn’t use the extra power for heated seats on top of heating cabin. I even turned cabin heat off for quite a bit of the trip. Family was complaining that I was worrying too much and being too conservative with power with going so slow and whatnot but I was glad I was careful because range was so low.

I will check out the speed charts. Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip. Was already holding up traffic going 55-60 on back roads (which I was on in order to go slower- normally would take interstate the whole route). On interstate I was going 70-75 which is already 5-10 mph under the speed of traffic. Speed limit is 75 and traffic is usually about 5 over that. Was not worried about that speed in rain at all on interstate and it was only raining for a small part of the trip. Not a monsoon or anything. Pretty routine driving around here and we deal with much worse in winter.

So I guess I’m saying “slow down” not an option because that’s what I was doing already. It’s fine, I have other options like taking my pickup truck or I can charge up while I’m there next time if I’m worried. Was just surprised at all as it seemed like pretty normal driving so that 150 range is really about 1/2 that for me under normal conditions. I expected real world to be lower at times but didn’t realize it would be that much different. Still don’t understand the math of how averaging 3.4 MPK (I reset trip computer at start) comes out to 112 mile range with 40KW battery.

SageBrush
Posts: 2497
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:59 pm

I don't think the SoC remaining reading is down to "real" zero and there is a built in reserve that cannot be accessed. Sorry I cannot be more specific.

Wind, driving over 70 mph, and the defogger are energy hogs. Not much you can do about it*, which is why I tell people to take a 30% deduction off EPA range for any condition driving. These weather conditions happen.

*I've put RainX on my windshield but I do not have enough experience yet to say it is effective. Do you have a Right hand lane for slower driving speeds ?

Bottom line: I think your car range was reasonable given the conditions and your driving.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 7930
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:05 pm

Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". See viewtopic.php?p=520169#p520169.

In all previous Leafs and I suspect it to be true w/the '18 40 kWh Leaf, as well, not all the battery capacity is user accessible. Some is intentionally left unusable (not user accessible) at the top and bottom of the battery.

Back to the range chart, on a 30 kWh Leaf w/new battery, it estimates that if you went 45 mph steady speed at 70 F, no HVAC usage, etc. (see conditions), you should average 5.5 miles miles/kWh (or if that's what you averaged) and should be able to make it 154 miles until dead. If you went 75 mph (or averaged 3.3 miles/kWh), that car should be able to make it 92 miles.

Further down, there was a chart for 24 kWh battery (e.g. Use this 100% chart for a factory new battery), 35 mph estimate is 6.3 miles/kWh or 132 miles until dead vs. 75 mph (3.0 miles/kWh) of 62 miles until dead.

Edmunds achieved exactly 132.0 miles until dead on a 2011 Leaf doing 35 mph: https://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/201 ... r-end.html. That car has an EPA range rating of 73 miles vs. the 2018's 151 miles.

TonyWilliams asserts the speed at which max range is achieved is 12 mph. :mrgreen:

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:53 pm

Sorry I left the h off, didn’t think it mattered here as I’m obviously talking about capacity and clearly not talking about kilowatt minutes or days.

SageBrush
Posts: 2497
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:56 pm

LeaferSutherland wrote:Sorry I left the h off, didn’t think it mattered here as I’m obviously talking about capacity and clearly not talking about kilowatt minutes or days.

kW has a specific meaning, and it is not capacity. Read the provided link.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:02 pm

Based on the math that my car is using it looks like somewhere around 7KWh of battery capacity is not available to me.

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