2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

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LeaferSutherland

Active member
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
31
So yesterday I did my first long drive with our new 2018 Leaf. I will list all the data I have and then I’m curious if this is in line with what you guys think is normal.

Trip is 100 miles. When we bought car this trip was kind of a measuring stick for us. It’s a trip we do 4-6 times a year so not a huge deal to just take ICE but at same time, this was one reason we didn’t buy prior generation Leaf. Wanted to at least be able to do this trip. There will be at least another 6-10 trips similar distance for us in a year and doing this without a charge up seemed like minimum for us for electric vehicle.

Outside temp- 34 to 42
Wind- pretty windy and gusty at times. Cross wind most of the time. Fighting it for 1/4 of trip both ways because it changed so it was directly at us but never directly behind us. 15-20 mph plus gusts up to 30 or so.

Heater- pre warmed car at start of trip while plugged in. Then ran it in defrost mode because of fog on first 1/3 of trip. Turned heater off when I could and ran it with partial recirculating mode. Seemed like got 3.0 MPK when heat was on normal but when conserving it more got up to 4.0 and averages 3.4 for trip. Kept it around 60 degrees so not warm but OK with a jacket on.

No use of heated seats or steering

Rain 1/4 of time so windshield wiper use then

Radio on medium low volume 85% of time

Average of 500 pounds total cargo including driver and passengers

Speed - expressway 70-75 for 25%, back roads at 55-60 for 60% of time. Slower speed side roads at 30-40 MPH for 15% of time.

Overall- felt like I was using minimal heat, minimal radio volume and driving slower and taking more back roads vs expressway compared to “normal” way I would drive. Got 3.4 average MPK which is pretty good for higher speeds, rain and heat IMO- at least compared to what I usually get in those conditions when I’m not trying to conserve.

So here is the only disappointing part - got back with 9% range (13 miles maybe?) on guessometer. Got warning on dash as I approached my driveway.

So it “worked” for this trip but barely. Many times of the year it’s much colder or really hot where we will need AC. I conserved everything more than normal yet looks like my useable range is around 100 miles. I would have thought before buying and testing that range would be better than that. The conditions where I could go 150 to me are so rare, that’s a fantasy number. I would think if you told average person that range was 100 miles with this car they would still be surprised / disappointed, because I had to work pretty hard to save energy to get about 110 on what I consider a typical day and I think going 100 was cutting it pretty close considering the consequences of being wrong. I guess the disconnect for me really is this- seems like 3.4 MPK would get me around 136 mile range not 113. Am I doing the math wrong or is the car doing it wrong?
 
No use of heated seats or steering

Why on earth not? They don't rob range noticeably. As for what you did wrong, it was the speed, combined with the wind of course. When conditions are less than optimal, slow down to no more than 65MPH. If it's raining or snowing, then 60MPH should be the upper limit.
 
I agree. It’s the speed that did you in. I wouldn’t even think of going 75 in the rain. Loss of traction and ability to stop at that speed are significant.

As far as efficiency goes, rain can play a role in reduced range, rolling resistance etc. Obviously speed. It wouldn’t matter wether we are in an ICE vehicle or electric we like to keep it cool in the car when winter travelling but we use seat heaters and heated steering a lot. In our lead I haven’t noticed the seats and steering wheel having much affect on range.

Defrost is not an option. Keep the windows clear at all costs.

Be interesting to see how your next trip goes with cruise control set at 65 and maybe it will be a little warmer.

Thanks for the report though. Good real world contribution to the forum.

Happy Easter.

John.
 
LeftieBiker said:
No use of heated seats or steering

Why on earth not? They don't rob range noticeably. As for what you did wrong, it was the speed, combined with the wind of course. When conditions are less than optimal, slow down to no more than 65MPH. If it's raining or snowing, then 60MPH should be the upper limit.
Exactly!

Use the heated seats and steering wheel to reduce heater use. Heater is a power pig compared to heated seats and steering wheel. Stereo volume has almost no effect. The speed then the heater usage didn't help.

Not sure which trim you have but if the vehicle you have still has the energy monitor display that shows you how many kW are going to the motor, climate control and other, you'll see what we mean. The VAST majority of the power usage is either accelerating or maintaining speed. HVAC is next.

OP should take a look at the 30 kWh range charts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295 (there isn't a 40 kWh chart yet) for an idea how much higher speed kills range autonomy.

Tesla has blogged about range vs. speed before such as at https://web.archive.org/web/20120510175541/https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range and https://web.archive.org/web/20120530005617/http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-efficiency-and-range.

And yes, rain will reduce efficiency. The low temps should also yield temporarily reduced battery capacity.

OP should also look at these about EPA tests (mainly geared for ICEVs and measuring mileage but EVs are run thru these cycles to determine range, as well):
https://web.archive.org/web/20100111052810/http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q3/the_truth_about_epa_city_highway_mpg_estimates-feature - written before Leaf existed
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml - look at all the tabs and esp. note the average speeds of each test cycle
https://jalopnik.com/how-fuel-economy-is-measured-and-why-you-get-different-1716232721
 
I thought I replied to this but not seeing it now.

Heated seats I use for increased range when I’m alone or with one passwnger. Not useful when people are in back seat because if I use those to be comfortable at a lower temp, well I’m not the type to let my kids sit cold in the back while I’m warm. The point of having heat is to be comfortable. Rear seat heat isn’t an option on 2018. I have SL with every option. Also, since I barely made it home, I’m glad I didn’t use the extra power for heated seats on top of heating cabin. I even turned cabin heat off for quite a bit of the trip. Family was complaining that I was worrying too much and being too conservative with power with going so slow and whatnot but I was glad I was careful because range was so low.

I will check out the speed charts. Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip. Was already holding up traffic going 55-60 on back roads (which I was on in order to go slower- normally would take interstate the whole route). On interstate I was going 70-75 which is already 5-10 mph under the speed of traffic. Speed limit is 75 and traffic is usually about 5 over that. Was not worried about that speed in rain at all on interstate and it was only raining for a small part of the trip. Not a monsoon or anything. Pretty routine driving around here and we deal with much worse in winter.

So I guess I’m saying “slow down” not an option because that’s what I was doing already. It’s fine, I have other options like taking my pickup truck or I can charge up while I’m there next time if I’m worried. Was just surprised at all as it seemed like pretty normal driving so that 150 range is really about 1/2 that for me under normal conditions. I expected real world to be lower at times but didn’t realize it would be that much different. Still don’t understand the math of how averaging 3.4 MPK (I reset trip computer at start) comes out to 112 mile range with 40KW battery.
 
I don't think the SoC remaining reading is down to "real" zero and there is a built in reserve that cannot be accessed. Sorry I cannot be more specific.

Wind, driving over 70 mph, and the defogger are energy hogs. Not much you can do about it*, which is why I tell people to take a 30% deduction off EPA range for any condition driving. These weather conditions happen.

*I've put RainX on my windshield but I do not have enough experience yet to say it is effective. Do you have a Right hand lane for slower driving speeds ?

Bottom line: I think your car range was reasonable given the conditions and your driving.
 
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=520169#p520169.

In all previous Leafs and I suspect it to be true w/the '18 40 kWh Leaf, as well, not all the battery capacity is user accessible. Some is intentionally left unusable (not user accessible) at the top and bottom of the battery.

Back to the range chart, on a 30 kWh Leaf w/new battery, it estimates that if you went 45 mph steady speed at 70 F, no HVAC usage, etc. (see conditions), you should average 5.5 miles miles/kWh (or if that's what you averaged) and should be able to make it 154 miles until dead. If you went 75 mph (or averaged 3.3 miles/kWh), that car should be able to make it 92 miles.

Further down, there was a chart for 24 kWh battery (e.g. Use this 100% chart for a factory new battery), 35 mph estimate is 6.3 miles/kWh or 132 miles until dead vs. 75 mph (3.0 miles/kWh) of 62 miles until dead.

Edmunds achieved exactly 132.0 miles until dead on a 2011 Leaf doing 35 mph: https://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011/long-term-road-test/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html. That car has an EPA range rating of 73 miles vs. the 2018's 151 miles.

TonyWilliams asserts the speed at which max range is achieved is 12 mph. :mrgreen:
 
Sorry I left the h off, didn’t think it mattered here as I’m obviously talking about capacity and clearly not talking about kilowatt minutes or days.
 
LeaferSutherland said:
Sorry I left the h off, didn’t think it mattered here as I’m obviously talking about capacity and clearly not talking about kilowatt minutes or days.
kW has a specific meaning, and it is not capacity. Read the provided link.
 
for your reference, the seats take 18w on low, 35w on high and the steering wheel is less than that, couldn't find someones measurement data but i would guess 10-15w. This will not make a measurable effect on your range if you had them on the whole trip. The heat pump varies as far as how much power it takes, depends on the temperature you are keeping in the cabin.

If you said it was wet/foggy and you had the AC on and the heat on also, then that is a double whammy. The AC will use the heat pump in 'dehumidifier' mode and it won't add any heat to the cabin. While doing that, your heater is all off the resistance element, and will take several KW of power. Mind the climate control power gauge if your telematics has that option (gen 1 SV/SL models can show that).

outside temps below 40 affect my gen 1 leaf's range noticeably also, so i can attest to the performance hit you saw there.

wipers and radio also use practically no power. if you do this trip in the summer you will succeed with much more range remaining. you will just have to adjust your driving habits in cold and inclement weather.

did you reset your 'miles per kwh' gauge before starting the trip? Some quick envelope math - you had 9% remaining, the first gen Leafs have about 89% of the capacity usable when new based on previous peoples data/math. assuming the 40kwh has similar numbers then you had 35.6 kwh to burn (100%) when you set off, you had 9% (3.2 kwh) remaining when you got home so you used up 32.4 kwh - puts you right around 3 miles per kwh, pretty darn low.. maybe the 40kwh has more 'reserves'. Plug in leafspy and see how many GIDs are available at 100% charge.

read this interesting thread to learn more about capacity: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16197

my 2 cents
Marko
 
estomax said:
for your reference, the seats take 18w on low, 35w on high and the steering wheel is less than that, couldn't find someones measurement data but i would guess 10-15w.
Marko
Well said. To put those numbers into context, the car was consuming around 15,000 watts during the trip.
 
SageBrush said:
LeaferSutherland said:
Sorry I left the h off, didn’t think it mattered here as I’m obviously talking about capacity and clearly not talking about kilowatt minutes or days.
kW has a specific meaning, and it is not capacity. Read the provided link.


Yes, very aware of the meaning and the difference. I left it off because I was just being lazy and since the context of what I wrote so clearly indicated that I was referring to capacity, I didn’t think anyone would be confused by it. I got it, don’t worry. There’s no confusion on my end regarding the proper terminology. Just didn’t think I needed to be that precise since everyone here, including you, knew what I was talking about. Like saying I have a 300 horse motor. No, it’s 300 horse power motor! True but everyone knows that based on the context.
 
I am shocked the 2018 SL doesn’t have rear heated seats! My (recently totaled) 2015 S had rear heated seats. Guess Nissan got a little chincy this year. Other than that, I concur with others that your range was acceptable on this trip given weather conditions and speed, plus having a full car. Driving in the right lane on the interstate with cruise set to 65 would have yielded a measurable benefit to range. I understand that isn’t optimal, but it won’t always be cold, windy and rainy when you make this drive. Next time you take this trip it may be 65 F and sunny, and if so you will notice a range pickup even if you drive the same speed as this trip.
 
We were disappointed that rear seat heat wasn’t available as well. I liked the idea of running a colder car and just heating the occupants to gain some range. Still can do this when alone of course.

There are times when I can slow up to 65 on the interstate in the right lane but much of the time both lanes are full and traffic is just humming along and you can just see the trouble you’re creating on the road. Just not worth it to me at that point.

I really appreciate all the input and information. This will be helpful for me while learning how to get the most out of it.
 
If slowing down really isn't an option (I'm more of the 'find a slower vehicle or three and form a convoy in the right lane' school of thought) then you should look into aero mods like smooth wheel covers and partial rear wheel skirts. Also make sure your tires are at 5-10% below the sidewall printed maximum (not what is suggested by Nissan) pressure.
 
LeaferSutherland said:
Based on the math that my car is using it looks like somewhere around 7KWh of battery capacity is not available to me.
If usable is ~ 38 kWh
9% remained,
34.6 kWh in play

At 0.3 kWh/mile for 100 miles, 30 kWh consumed

Discrepancy is about 4.6 kWh

Still something to wonder about, I agree. LeafSpy might help you out here.
 
Bufordleaf said:
I am shocked the 2018 SL doesn’t have rear heated seats! My (recently totaled) 2015 S had rear heated seats. Guess Nissan got a little chincy this year.
Nissan started screwing with not including heated rear seats on all trims starting w/model year 2016.

See specs tab of and search for heated seats:
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2016-nissan-leaf-press-kit
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2017-nissan-leaf-press-kit

On those years, you only got them on SL trims.

And yes, I heard about no heated rear seats at all on the '18 at the EVent in Sept 2017 at Nissan's Sunnyvale research office. I posted about it at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=505420#p505420. It was more of overhearing/listening to a conversation between the Nissan North America marketing guy and some other folks. They were sorta talking about the heated seat retrofits people did on '11 Leafs and this came up.
 
LeaferSutherland said:
I will check out the speed charts. Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip. Was already holding up traffic going 55-60 on back roads (which I was on in order to go slower- normally would take interstate the whole route). On interstate I was going 70-75 which is already 5-10 mph under the speed of traffic. Speed limit is 75 and traffic is usually about 5 over that. Was not worried about that speed in rain at all on interstate and it was only raining for a small part of the trip. Not a monsoon or anything. Pretty routine driving around here and we deal with much worse in winter.

You lost me at "Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip". Throw in wind and rain, and any EV owner would know these are all negatives for miles/kWh. Not saying everyone should go as slow as I do on the highway (~60 mph), but you were at the extreme on many factors.
 
Stanton said:
LeaferSutherland said:
I will check out the speed charts. Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip. Was already holding up traffic going 55-60 on back roads (which I was on in order to go slower- normally would take interstate the whole route). On interstate I was going 70-75 which is already 5-10 mph under the speed of traffic. Speed limit is 75 and traffic is usually about 5 over that. Was not worried about that speed in rain at all on interstate and it was only raining for a small part of the trip. Not a monsoon or anything. Pretty routine driving around here and we deal with much worse in winter.

You lost me at "Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip". Throw in wind and rain, and any EV owner would know these are all negatives for miles/kWh. Not saying everyone should go as slow as I do on the highway (~60 mph), but you were at the extreme on many factors.

OK, I’ll rephrase it. I could go slower at the risk of my safety and adding even more time to a trip that I’ve already added a half hour of extra time to... But if I really need to make any more compromises beyond the many I already made, I would rather just pay the extra $15 and take my pickup truck. The trade off just isn’t there at that point. This isn’t my daily commute, it’s a few times a year. Also note I made it at the speed I was going without recharge so it was a success so no need to go any slower. The point is that the 150 mile range stated is extremely optimistic IMO because my range was 112 after making many adjustments already to increase it to that number, including driving slower, taking back roads that are slower, and using the heat sparingly. Coming up 25% short of EPA range after making all of those concessions on what is a very average typical weather situation tells me a lot of people will be disappointed in the range. I felt I came into this with eyes wide open. I expected that on this same trip at Christmas when it might be 10 degrees, windy and heavy snowfall I would fall short of the EPA range by about that much. With this new information I’m now wondering if I could even make it 50 miles in those conditions. Keep in mind I did a lot of reading and research first. Most people will not do that. The enthusiasts in this forum are far more educated on this subject than I am but I’m far more educated than average car consumer and I know more than any of the car sales reps that I spoke with on the subject. There is a real disconnect here.

And don’t get me wrong, still love the car. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. This trip is an anomaly for me but it was also arbitrary measuring stick for us before opting for EV. If it is not practical for this trip, I’m not going to lose any sleep. For now it works. Maybe as I learn how to save more energy I can offset future battery degradation too. If not, it’s not going to matter much to me.
 
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