estomax
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 424033
Location: Seattle

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:04 pm

for your reference, the seats take 18w on low, 35w on high and the steering wheel is less than that, couldn't find someones measurement data but i would guess 10-15w. This will not make a measurable effect on your range if you had them on the whole trip. The heat pump varies as far as how much power it takes, depends on the temperature you are keeping in the cabin.

If you said it was wet/foggy and you had the AC on and the heat on also, then that is a double whammy. The AC will use the heat pump in 'dehumidifier' mode and it won't add any heat to the cabin. While doing that, your heater is all off the resistance element, and will take several KW of power. Mind the climate control power gauge if your telematics has that option (gen 1 SV/SL models can show that).

outside temps below 40 affect my gen 1 leaf's range noticeably also, so i can attest to the performance hit you saw there.

wipers and radio also use practically no power. if you do this trip in the summer you will succeed with much more range remaining. you will just have to adjust your driving habits in cold and inclement weather.

did you reset your 'miles per kwh' gauge before starting the trip? Some quick envelope math - you had 9% remaining, the first gen Leafs have about 89% of the capacity usable when new based on previous peoples data/math. assuming the 40kwh has similar numbers then you had 35.6 kwh to burn (100%) when you set off, you had 9% (3.2 kwh) remaining when you got home so you used up 32.4 kwh - puts you right around 3 miles per kwh, pretty darn low.. maybe the 40kwh has more 'reserves'. Plug in leafspy and see how many GIDs are available at 100% charge.

read this interesting thread to learn more about capacity: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16197

my 2 cents
Marko
Last edited by estomax on Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH 2/17 32k, 96% SoH 6/17
46k, 94% SoH 2/18 52k, 88% SoH 6/18

SageBrush
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:07 pm

estomax wrote:for your reference, the seats take 18w on low, 35w on high and the steering wheel is less than that, couldn't find someones measurement data but i would guess 10-15w.
Marko

Well said. To put those numbers into context, the car was consuming around 15,000 watts during the trip.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:16 pm

SageBrush wrote:
LeaferSutherland wrote:Sorry I left the h off, didn’t think it mattered here as I’m obviously talking about capacity and clearly not talking about kilowatt minutes or days.

kW has a specific meaning, and it is not capacity. Read the provided link.



Yes, very aware of the meaning and the difference. I left it off because I was just being lazy and since the context of what I wrote so clearly indicated that I was referring to capacity, I didn’t think anyone would be confused by it. I got it, don’t worry. There’s no confusion on my end regarding the proper terminology. Just didn’t think I needed to be that precise since everyone here, including you, knew what I was talking about. Like saying I have a 300 horse motor. No, it’s 300 horse power motor! True but everyone knows that based on the context.

Bufordleaf
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 8:59 am
Delivery Date: 20 Dec 2014
Location: Buford, GA

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:17 pm

I am shocked the 2018 SL doesn’t have rear heated seats! My (recently totaled) 2015 S had rear heated seats. Guess Nissan got a little chincy this year. Other than that, I concur with others that your range was acceptable on this trip given weather conditions and speed, plus having a full car. Driving in the right lane on the interstate with cruise set to 65 would have yielded a measurable benefit to range. I understand that isn’t optimal, but it won’t always be cold, windy and rainy when you make this drive. Next time you take this trip it may be 65 F and sunny, and if so you will notice a range pickup even if you drive the same speed as this trip.
2015 Leaf S with QC

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:32 pm

We were disappointed that rear seat heat wasn’t available as well. I liked the idea of running a colder car and just heating the occupants to gain some range. Still can do this when alone of course.

There are times when I can slow up to 65 on the interstate in the right lane but much of the time both lanes are full and traffic is just humming along and you can just see the trouble you’re creating on the road. Just not worth it to me at that point.

I really appreciate all the input and information. This will be helpful for me while learning how to get the most out of it.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9056
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:03 pm

If slowing down really isn't an option (I'm more of the 'find a slower vehicle or three and form a convoy in the right lane' school of thought) then you should look into aero mods like smooth wheel covers and partial rear wheel skirts. Also make sure your tires are at 5-10% below the sidewall printed maximum (not what is suggested by Nissan) pressure.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:46 am

LeaferSutherland wrote:Based on the math that my car is using it looks like somewhere around 7KWh of battery capacity is not available to me.

If usable is ~ 38 kWh
9% remained,
34.6 kWh in play

At 0.3 kWh/mile for 100 miles, 30 kWh consumed

Discrepancy is about 4.6 kWh

Still something to wonder about, I agree. LeafSpy might help you out here.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 7984
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:34 am

Bufordleaf wrote:I am shocked the 2018 SL doesn’t have rear heated seats! My (recently totaled) 2015 S had rear heated seats. Guess Nissan got a little chincy this year.

Nissan started screwing with not including heated rear seats on all trims starting w/model year 2016.

See specs tab of and search for heated seats:
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit

On those years, you only got them on SL trims.

And yes, I heard about no heated rear seats at all on the '18 at the EVent in Sept 2017 at Nissan's Sunnyvale research office. I posted about it at viewtopic.php?p=505420#p505420. It was more of overhearing/listening to a conversation between the Nissan North America marketing guy and some other folks. They were sorta talking about the heated seat retrofits people did on '11 Leafs and this came up.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:17 am

LeaferSutherland wrote:I will check out the speed charts. Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip. Was already holding up traffic going 55-60 on back roads (which I was on in order to go slower- normally would take interstate the whole route). On interstate I was going 70-75 which is already 5-10 mph under the speed of traffic. Speed limit is 75 and traffic is usually about 5 over that. Was not worried about that speed in rain at all on interstate and it was only raining for a small part of the trip. Not a monsoon or anything. Pretty routine driving around here and we deal with much worse in winter.


You lost me at "Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip". Throw in wind and rain, and any EV owner would know these are all negatives for miles/kWh. Not saying everyone should go as slow as I do on the highway (~60 mph), but you were at the extreme on many factors.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:40 am

Stanton wrote:
LeaferSutherland wrote:I will check out the speed charts. Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip. Was already holding up traffic going 55-60 on back roads (which I was on in order to go slower- normally would take interstate the whole route). On interstate I was going 70-75 which is already 5-10 mph under the speed of traffic. Speed limit is 75 and traffic is usually about 5 over that. Was not worried about that speed in rain at all on interstate and it was only raining for a small part of the trip. Not a monsoon or anything. Pretty routine driving around here and we deal with much worse in winter.


You lost me at "Unfortunately I can’t go any slower on this trip". Throw in wind and rain, and any EV owner would know these are all negatives for miles/kWh. Not saying everyone should go as slow as I do on the highway (~60 mph), but you were at the extreme on many factors.


OK, I’ll rephrase it. I could go slower at the risk of my safety and adding even more time to a trip that I’ve already added a half hour of extra time to... But if I really need to make any more compromises beyond the many I already made, I would rather just pay the extra $15 and take my pickup truck. The trade off just isn’t there at that point. This isn’t my daily commute, it’s a few times a year. Also note I made it at the speed I was going without recharge so it was a success so no need to go any slower. The point is that the 150 mile range stated is extremely optimistic IMO because my range was 112 after making many adjustments already to increase it to that number, including driving slower, taking back roads that are slower, and using the heat sparingly. Coming up 25% short of EPA range after making all of those concessions on what is a very average typical weather situation tells me a lot of people will be disappointed in the range. I felt I came into this with eyes wide open. I expected that on this same trip at Christmas when it might be 10 degrees, windy and heavy snowfall I would fall short of the EPA range by about that much. With this new information I’m now wondering if I could even make it 50 miles in those conditions. Keep in mind I did a lot of reading and research first. Most people will not do that. The enthusiasts in this forum are far more educated on this subject than I am but I’m far more educated than average car consumer and I know more than any of the car sales reps that I spoke with on the subject. There is a real disconnect here.

And don’t get me wrong, still love the car. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. This trip is an anomaly for me but it was also arbitrary measuring stick for us before opting for EV. If it is not practical for this trip, I’m not going to lose any sleep. For now it works. Maybe as I learn how to save more energy I can offset future battery degradation too. If not, it’s not going to matter much to me.

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”