LeftieBiker
Posts: 9776
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:35 pm

Air friction is directly proportional to speed. If you drive twice the speed to cover the same distance, it will take twice the power. Physics. Works the same way in an ICE.


I don't think this is correct at speeds in which air resistance is a real factor. I think it would be more like 4X the power needed to drive 70MPH as 35MPH, and maybe more.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2903
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Air friction is directly proportional to speed. If you drive twice the speed to cover the same distance, it will take twice the power. Physics. Works the same way in an ICE.


I don't think this is correct at speeds in which air resistance is a real factor. I think it would be more like 4X the power needed to drive 70MPH as 35MPH, and maybe more.

Talking only about air resistance Vs speed, the change in energy/distance is quadratic and the power is cubic.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:01 pm

Also, and I don’t think this can be stated too many times, there is a diffence between kilowatts and kilowatt hours. Even if you’re talking about the capacity of your battery with regard to range, people will get confused if you’re not paying attention when you type it and make an error. They will think you’re talking about kilowatt minutes or days for example.

SageBrush
Posts: 2903
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:20 pm

LeaferSutherland wrote:Also, and I don’t think this can be stated too many times, there is a diffence between kilowatts and kilowatt hours. Even if you’re talking about the capacity of your battery with regard to range, people will get confused if you’re not paying attention when you type it and make an error. They will think you’re talking about kilowatt minutes or days for example.


Ya know, your EV ownership will be enhanced by a a deeper understanding of the the effects of wind, rain and defroster use on power consumption ... or you can take a time out and go pout in a corner.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:51 pm

oh sorry. I thought it was a joke. Like this had devolved into us all posting the exact same information that has already been posted over and over and pretending as if it was new Info.

Rest assured, there is zero information that I need to learn from you all about this car at this point. Got the lingo now I think. Always understood all of the information about energy use, wind, heat, defrost, etc. learned that the radio uses very little power comparatively so that was valuable. I read most of the other info posted in this forum before we bought the car so feeling pretty good. Thanks for your concern though.

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:22 am

LeaferSutherland wrote:Lastly, would you really do that? Run an uncomfortable cabin temp for other passengers while you’re nice and warm using seat heat that they don’t have available to them? Seems like a dick move to me.
Both of my EVs have rear seat heaters, and if I regularly had rear passengers in the car I would not by an EV without them. Just another thing to be disappointed at in the 2018 LEAF.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17) 29K mi
Tesla X 100D (ordered, 12/18 delivery) (replaced 3 reservation)

alozzy
Posts: 1197
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:09 am

FYI, aero drag increases by the square of the velocity so even small increases in highway speed increases required force to overcome that drag dramatically.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

SageBrush
Posts: 2903
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:47 am

alozzy wrote:FYI, aero drag increases by the square of the velocity so even small increases in highway speed increases required force to overcome that drag dramatically.

At speeds between 60 and 75 mph the Aero component is ~ 1/3 -- 2/3rds of the total forces, depending on CdA and actual speed. Consider a 10% increase in speed in conditions where Aero is half of the total: Aero increases 1.1^2 = 1.21 while fuel consumption per mile increases about 1.21/2 or about 10%. It is actually a little more for reasons most people do not care about; the point I wish to make is that the graph is less curved than you might guess.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Reddy
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:33 pm

SageBrush wrote:@Reddy,

Your post of the EPA test is correct but you neglected to mention that the Monrooney (sp?) sticker incorporates a 30% discount off the raw results. That is why the highway fuel economy is said to represent 65 mph driving (on dry roads, etc.)
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Evoforce
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 2018 first real world range test- disappointed a little

Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:25 pm

Thanks for posting OP. Your driving experience using your "18" leaf I found informative. You were very close in range to what I had felt were going to be more realistic range numbers for a 150 mile rated Leaf. In fact, dead on with what I had extrapolated and posted about previously. The best guessing that was done was based on previous model Leafs and perceived performance of traveling at freeway speeds of around 65 MPH. I sure wished that you could have held out for the 2019 Leaf which I think (hope) will be a better car to own. It remains to be seen if Nissan will truly step up its game. I am glad that you still will be able to use this car for shorter trips but I am sorry it might not be ideal for your medium and longer trips. Good luck!
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

Return to “Range / Efficiency / Carwings”