9FingerFury
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:43 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 338080

Impressed with my LEAF

Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:37 pm

I bought a used 2014 SL with 40,0xx miles on it, and 11 bars on the battery about a week ago.

I just did the math on the cost of driving my Nissan LEAF, and I am amazed. Over this last week, doing normal driving (commuting to and from work, picking kids up from daycare, trips to the gym, grocery store, and church), I averaged 4.3 miles per kWh.

Puget Sound Energy charges $.09/kWh for the first 600 kWh, and $0.10/kWh after, each month. Right now we average just over 600 kWh/mo. So with the added expense of charging my vehicle, I'm guessing it will add to the $0.10/kWh rate on my bill.

At 4.3 kWh/mi, this means it will cost me about $0.023 or $0.024 per mile to drive my LEAF. With gas being (conservatively) $3.00/gal right now, for me to get down to $0.024/mi in cost (that's 2.4 cents per mile), I would need to get around 125mpg with a gasoline engine.

Compared to the 11mpg truck I was driving ($0.2727/mi in gas), at about 10,000mi/yr ($2,727/yr in gas vs $240/yr in electricity), I’m saving about $2,300 in gas alone!

TLDR: I'm getting the equivalent of 125mpg in my electric car based on current electricity rates and fuel costs in my area.

Reddy
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:09 pm

9FingerFury wrote:I bought a used 2014 SL with 40,0xx miles on it, and 11 bars on the battery about a week ago......
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Enjoy at-home fueling with USA electrons. Tell everyone that you know. One at a time, we will conquer the oil devil.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

TheLostPetrol
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 307105
Location: Greater Chicagoland

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:30 pm

9FingerFury wrote:At 4.3 kWh/mi, ...

4.3 mi/kWh (All your other units look correct.)
2017-12-16 New Prius Prime
2018-02-21 Used 2015 LEAF SV Mfd 2014-07 In-service 2015-02-27
Date mi AHr SOH Hx QC L1/L2
2018-02-21 26,938 60.22 96.98% 90.73% 1 988
2018-07-01 31,601 58.05 93.48% 87.03% 11 1223
2018-10-01 35,428 55.63 89.58% 82.13% 16 1440

9FingerFury
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:43 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 338080

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:03 pm

TheLostPetrol wrote:
9FingerFury wrote:At 4.3 kWh/mi, ...

4.3 mi/kWh (All your other units look correct.)


Oops. Thanks for catching that!

NoReleaf
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 305255
Location: Wheaton, Illinois, USA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:06 pm

This looks like a good place to offer some thoughts on the cost of electricity, etc.. Let me know if I should have or should start a new thread. It's not like I have anything momentous to say, but maybe the content ought to be titled differently. I'm curious about the EV-related cost of electricity elsewhere and for others.

(Liberally edited a few days later:)
In my area, a fairly expensive one for electricity, I think, for this household electricity cost is at $0.1169/kWh delivered with tax (with fixed, non-variable hourly rates - change to that is in progress). The cost of trickle charge is no more than $0.17* (not $0.13) per hour. An overnight replenishment charge for what I typically use in a day (~20%) should cost no more than $1.25* (not $0.96). I do not necessarily charge every day, and I have taken advantage of NCTC public L2 charging stations fairly often (and even DCFC on occasion), but if I always charged at home for all ordinary charging needs, I think that would be $30.00 max (24 days of 7.33 hour overnight charges replenishing ~20%, or 176 total hours of L1 charging one way or the other).

Aside: When my landlord/roommate saw the first post-EV electricity bill, I think that the jump he saw and the timing of the billing period - start of colder weather - gave a false and hard to overcome impression that the Leaf just gobbles up electricity. Fact is that the bill only included two weeks of the EV and 7 charges - more of the increase was from a space heater, same as other late falls and winters. I expect skepticism every time I will now point out that charging is a 17* (not 13) cent per hour proposition max.

*From an estimate of 1.1 kWh per hour being delivered to the battery.
*Edit, a fews day later: So now I know about the loss factor. Whatever is delivering to the battery is less than I'm paying for. OK. Should have known that the home charging wasn't "maybe a bit slower than expected, sometimes."

The Leaf's varying display of efficiency history has ranged from 3.1 miles per kWh to 3.6 (the most recent summary). If I go with the most common overall, 3.4 miles, then the fuel cost per 100 miles is $3.44. Gasoline seems fairly cheap right now at $2.19/gallon. That gallon would take me 35 miles in my old Saturn SL2, for a fuel cost of $6.26 per 100 miles. So just at the moment, the Leaf isn't looking that fuel-efficient. As compared with the Saturn, the Leaf is "only" a 64 MPG car. More of a really good hybrid than all-electric. That is a bit tongue-in-cheek. Electricity is expensive here, and gasoline prices are variable and typically lower at this time of year, if I'm not mistaken. But seriously, fuel cost savings were not the selling point for me - that is for the SUV owners and very heavy drivers. I was averaging in recent years no more than 9,000 miles per year in a rather fuel-efficient ICE. Unless I start driving a lot more, over a three-year lease the fuel cost savings with a Leaf are not going to be impressive. Not to me, anyway. Even though $25-$35 monthly should impress me, maybe. Could be that gasoline seems irrelevant now. It's all about optimizing electricity.

Hourly pricing (taking advantage of off-peak rates) is estimated to reduce an electric bill by up to 15%. How much of a specific reduction to charging cost there will be remains to be seen. However, something I am also asking the landlord to consider is something that would actually increase cost. That, of course, is specifying the source of electricity as all wind/solar through the local utility. Current offer: 33% more. So the cost of electricity would become $0.1555/kWh less whatever off-peak discount could be had. Being able to say my "clean" Leaf is not 31% coal-powered (to say nothing of natural gas) stands to cost me a premium of 13%, probably.

How about you?
Last edited by NoReleaf on Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2018 Leaf SV Gun Metallic (leased)
All-Weather Package, Technology Package

cwerdna
Posts: 8788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:28 pm

NoReleaf wrote:This looks like a good place to offer some thoughts on the cost of electricity, etc.. Let me know if I should have or should start a new thread. It's not like I have anything momentous to say, but maybe the content ought to be titled differently. I'm curious about the EV-related cost of electricity elsewhere and for others.

In my area, a fairly expensive one for electricity, I think, for this household electricity cost is at $0.1169/kWh delivered with tax (with fixed, non-variable hourly rates - change to that is in progress).
...
So the cost of electricity would become $0.1555/kWh less whatever off-peak discount could be had. Being able to say my "clean" Leaf is not 31% coal-powered (to say nothing of natural gas) stands to cost me a premium of 13%, probably.

Hahaha. You don't have expensive electricity.

See my posts at viewtopic.php?p=531393#p531393. I don't have time to re-write it all.

I've attached the electric portion of my most recent bill at https://imgur.com/a/GE9ikQx w/PII blocked out. Luckily, I stayed within tier 1 and it's not "summer". I've also attached my most expensive (for the electric portion) bill for the year, so far at https://imgur.com/a/Z8nq2uB. That was during "summer", so the rates are different and so are the time/day bands, in addition to having a 3rd band: peak.

OP lives in the Pacific NW which has cheap electricity (I lived up there for about 9 years).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

NoReleaf
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 305255
Location: Wheaton, Illinois, USA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:39 pm

Hahaha. You don't have expensive electricity.


Your rates may be bad, but your usage is phenomenal. How do you do it? Candles for lighting and cooking with a wood stove? :D Same billing period here, over 1,200 kWh. Unusually cold early winter temps.

Is all of California this bad? Or worse? Lots of still-expensive solar? That would give you bragging rights over the coal-burning Leafs to your east...
2018 Leaf SV Gun Metallic (leased)
All-Weather Package, Technology Package

NoReleaf
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 305255
Location: Wheaton, Illinois, USA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:42 pm

OP lives in the Pacific NW which has cheap electricity (I lived up there for about 9 years).


The OP's reported rates were actually higher than I expected for Hydroelectric Washington by a lot. If that is low for the US as a whole, yeah, I really shouldn't be complaining.
2018 Leaf SV Gun Metallic (leased)
All-Weather Package, Technology Package

cwerdna
Posts: 8788
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:56 pm

NoReleaf wrote:
Hahaha. You don't have expensive electricity.


Your rates may be bad, but your usage is phenomenal. How do you do it? Candles for lighting and cooking with a wood stove? :D Same billing period here, over 1,200 kWh. Unusually cold early winter temps.

Is all of California this bad? Or worse? Lots of still-expensive solar? That would give you bragging rights over the coal-burning Leafs to your east...

Hahaha. It's not nearly as cold here as IL.

My usage is a bit atypical. I live alone and am at work most of the day on weekdays. I don't really cook. My furnace is nat gas (not turned up real high, so RonDawg says I live like an eskimo.... I'm turning it up a bit higher now, sometimes to 61 F) and my water heater is nat gas. My stove and dryer are electric though. Lighting for when I'm in a room is usually 2 LED bulbs (10 watts a piece) up to a few CFLs and LEDs (maybe <120 watts total). I have no solar as I don't own this house.

I've seen in CA some usages WAY higher than mine and some even lower than mine.

As I posted at viewtopic.php?p=379033#p379033 (which I just realized has a typo), I mentioned I was given a backhanded insult for using 310 kWh and 32 therms of nat gas in a month (this is all prior to me having a Leaf). That person now exists here on MNL.

A fair bit of CA is this bad in terms of rates. I think San Diego Gas & Electric is pretty expensive but http://www.siliconvalleypower.com/for-residents/rates (for city of Santa Clara only) is cheap. I think SMUD is cheaper than PG&E.

I also almost never charge my EV at home. Most of it is from free charging at work and a bit is from free public L2 charging. I'd estimate that of the kWh that gets added to my Leaf, <5% in an entire year is from charging at home.

My usage would be lower if I didn't have a NVR camera system running 24/7, some exterior lights that are turned on/off via photocell, and some interior lights on timers, for security reasons. House was broken into Jan 2015 (first time ever for this house, even though it was built 1979 and first time I've EVER had my residence broken into) when I had none of that. If I didn't have that and didn't have a TiVo running 24/7 + 2 Dropcams and some networking equipment that needs to stay on, my usage would be even lower.

I'm sure if I could bring my electricity usage lower if I swapped out my 2008 era DLP RPTV (lit by 3 LEDs) w/a modern LED-lit LCD TV and switched to using my laptop more and iPad more (no thanks). And, if I'd built the PC I'm typing on using a mobile processor i7 or a lower power version (https://ark.intel.com/products/129948) instead of an i7-8700, a fairly high power consumption desktop chip. And, both the LCDs I use are pretty old and pretty high power consumption vs. some newer stuff I've seen and used.

BTW, for that bill ending 12/11/18 w/$52.52 in electric charges (264.599 kWh used), I had $63.53 in nat gas charges. I used 43 therms but still was well within tier 1. So, my total PG&E bill that month was $116.05.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

NoReleaf
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 305255
Location: Wheaton, Illinois, USA

Re: Impressed with my LEAF

Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:38 pm

I also almost never charge my EV at home. Most of it is from free charging at work


Free charging at work would be nice. I don't know if that is really much of a thing yet in the Chicago suburbs. I would only guess that it is not. Yet. But I really don't know how that works, anywhere. Workplace charging stations could be private, employee-only, no? Probably are. I do see some private place-of-business charging stations that show up as public on EZ-Charge, etc., though. Notably, Exelon (they own the local utility ComEd) has recently popped up as having 8 L2 charging stations all of a sudden, and right on my way to/from work if I want to go that way. Too bad I don't just work there or close - that's the way to go, charging at work. Very few local public charging stations are anywhere I could practically park for a couple hours while waiting. Even the ones near restaurants... I can't stretch a meal to two hours. Maybe one hour. While I wouldn't mind stopping for a meal and a free charge five days a week, this obviously wouldn't save me any money.
2018 Leaf SV Gun Metallic (leased)
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