Owning a 2018 Leaf in Colorado

I'm looking at buying a 2018-19 Leaf in the next few weeks and have been reading some things about the vehicle's lack of a thermal management system for the battery leading to battery degradation sooner than expected. Was hoping to get some real word data from people who live in Colorado or similar climates where the temperature can be 100F+ in the summer and booger freezing cold in the winter.

The Leaf would be our second car (we have a Mazda CX9 for longer drives), my daily commute is 40 miles roundtrip, the Lead would go from my garage (not completely insulated but not super cold in the winter) to the garage at work. I would charge the Leaf every night at home following the manufacturer's recommendations. I don't plan on using the supercharger stations unless I screw up and get caught running low on electrons.

Given my needs, does it really matter that there isn't a thermal management system?

Thanks,
JC

One benefit of owning an EV in Colorado is the thinner air - you'll definitely get better range than anyone else, all other things being equal. Having said that, range in winter can be as much as 40% worse, especially in slippery, snowy conditions.

I don't live in Colorado, but cold temperatures don't really damage the battery unless you leave the car unplugged during extremely cold nights. Also, if you don't charge when it's 100F and you don't leave the car in the sun when fully charged, then you should be fine. The battery will degrade over time, no matter what you do - it's just the reality of LEAF ownership.

No one knows for sure yet how well the 40 kWh packs will hold up over time. But, you'll likely still have 80% battery five years from now, or better

I would charge the Leaf every night at home following the manufacturer's recommendations.

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For best battery life, determine what percentage charge your home charging setup adds per hour (it's roughly 3% with 120 volts) and try for 80% or less unless you really need more. Nissan won't tell you to do this, but it's for PR reasons, not because it isn't what you should do.

Over six months, most of them warm, I've lost about 5% capacity. Hopefully that will slow after the first year. Still, you may want to lease the car - you can always buy it off lease if it works out well.

I live in Boulder and while it gets into the 90's here quite often it rarely breaks 100. Even so, due to the dry air the night time temps are usually near 70 even on the hottest days in June/July. The battery pack is very heavy and heats and cools slowly. I think the pack basically hovers around the average temp for the 24 hours so if it's 70 at night and 100 in the day, the pack really doesn't get much over 85. This last year, even in the hottest days of the year my car never went over 6 temp bars the summer. It helps to park in the shade and since you have a parking garage at work that shouldn't be an issue.

As Leftie says, charge it up to 80% or less, depending on your needs during the early morning hours when the temps are coolest and you will be doing about as good by your battery's health as can be done. Charging or hard driving will increase the battery's temperature due to internal heating/resistance but if you avoid fast charging on hot days that really shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks all for your input. I live in Parker so the Boulder info is greatly appreciated. Plan on trying to keep the battery between 30% and 80% charge if at all possible. Leasing is an interesting idea, but the incentives and rebates in Colorado almost make it a requirement to buy instead (I think I would be eligible for $16,500 back). So far it sounds like the lack of a thermal management system will not be that much of an issue for me.

I bought a Leaf S a month or so ago in Boulder. It has the charging and all weather option. I signed up for Xcel's Peak Demand Pricing plan and plan to charge the car in the garage, 240VAC, after 9 pm and not worry about the 80% charge level frequently mentioned on this forum.

Bouldergramp said:

I bought a Leaf S a month or so ago in Boulder. It has the charging and all weather option. I signed up for Xcel's Peak Demand Pricing plan and plan to charge the car in the garage, 240VAC, after 9 pm and not worry about the 80% charge level frequently mentioned on this forum.

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If you had leased I wouldn't comment. Since you bought, I'm wondering if you are not expecting much loss of capacity, don't need a lot, or are relying on the battery warranty? Charging to no more than 80% is a PITA compared to the '13 cars, but I've gotten used to it. It helps that I have a housemate who's willing to walk out to the garage and unplug it at a certain time for me...

If the owner's manual for my car said on page 1, "FOR MAXIMUM BATTERY LIFE DON'T CHARGE ABOVE 80%", I might consider trying to comply. Otherwise, I just will see what happens.

Bouldergramp said:

If the owner's manual for my car said on page 1, "FOR MAXIMUM BATTERY LIFE DON'T CHARGE ABOVE 80%", I might consider trying to comply. Otherwise, I just will see what happens.

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The 2013 Leaf had an 80% charge mode labeled "Long Life Mode" right on the menu. Maybe Cwerdna will quote you from the 2013 manual on this when he's around, later. Nissan offered 80% charging until 2014, when they dropped it - right after the EPA dinged the range estimate because of the 80% mode...

I acquired my 2019 Leaf at the end of October and have 6 weeks of Leaf Spy readings. I don't have to make long drives and keep SOC mostly in the 20%-60% range, to minimize calendar degradation. I've driven 788 miles to date, charging only at home. The data fit closely with the theoretical square root relationship, with fade (percent loss of capacity) = 0.02175 X sqrt days elapsed. So if battery temperature stayed around 50° as it is now, I'd expect a 0.4% loss of capacity after the first year.

Here in New Jersey we get some midsummer days in the 90s, but the average (24h) July temperature is only 75°. I keep the car in a garage equipped with an attic fan and timer used in summer to pull in the cooler night air. With my 2013 Leaf I had only a few records of battery temperature much over 80°. So allowing for summer, I'll probably see first year degradation of around 2%, which would be a lot better than my 2013 (July build) Leaf, which lost about 7% in the first year.

Fellow Coloradan here ...

Our 2013 LEAF has been degrading gracefully. Our main behavior changes are to not park on unshaded asphalt in the summer or charge when it is hot outside or when the battery is over 5 bars.

Your described uses are fine for the '18 LEAF; just convince yourself that they will not increase over the next 10 years.

I now have almost a full year on my 2018 LEAF (got it early Feb of 2018). My SOH is down to 94%. It dropped fast in the summer, winter degradation is much slower. I charge to 100% every night. The LEAF is driven by my wife and daughter, I don't want to mess with 80% charge or anything like that, it would be too frustrating for my family to deal with. In contrast, I charge my Tesla Model 3 to 90% because it is so easy to set the limit.

I expect that there is a good chance that I will end up getting the battery replaced under warranty at some point. I will probably hit 100k miles way before 8 years. Let's say I stretch it out to 6 years, at the current rate that would put my battery at 64%. I know that the degradation curve suppose to flatten a bit, but the cycle count would increase at the same time, so it should be a wash. I think that at 6-7 year mark getting new battery will be a very big deal because cost of a new battery will approach (or exceed) cost of the car. And I think there will be a lot of LEAFs getting new packs under warranty.

By the way, I am located in Utah. My temps are very similar to Colorado.

Nissan refuses to liquid cool their battery packs, I just don't understand it. now they know that their batts degrade and much faster than Volt or Tesla which do liquid cool. I leased a 19' and plan to give it back to Nissan when I am done with it. I really wanted a new Kona EV but they are not coming out fast enough and the 2011 i own doesn't go anywhere.

80% charge isn't going to work for me, if the car cannot deal with 100% than I will find one that will in 3 years.

badq45t said:

Nissan refuses to liquid cool their battery packs, I just don't understand it.

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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27677#p547072

A better solution for most places and most drivers.