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TomT
Posts: 10478
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Range Chart

Tue May 27, 2014 12:17 pm

As long as you aren't on the freeway! :lol:

theaveng wrote:If I slowdown from 75 to 40, I double my range (60 to 120). That's pretty strong incentive to slow down in ANY car to save energy.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2017 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Range Chart

Tue May 27, 2014 3:26 pm

The leaf is pretty efficient at 55 mph when battery is between 60 and 80 F. Per earlier post, was able to maintain 5 m/Kwh with a full car and low AC. Just manage the hills carefully. Allow speed to drift down on way up, and drift up in the downhill. Keep power meter to 2 bubbles, only going to 3 in uphill.
2013 SV Black
Miles: 17500
Average Carwings/Dash Efficiency: 4.5-6.5M/KWh (summer) ~2.8-3.9 winter
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87), Max distance 120 miles

msandeep
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:16 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Oct 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Range Chart

Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:45 pm

Long time lurker, posting for first time. First off, I'd like to mention that this is a fantastic forum. It's always good to hear about experiences of other leaf drivers. Some day there will be a cheap 300 mile battery and all this will be irrelevant, but till then..

I compared my mileage to Tony's chart. The numbers don't even come close. My Leaf has about 10K miles. I charge to 80% everyday and my round trip commute is about 50 miles. At the end of the day, the GOM shows about 22 miles remaining, for an estimated total of 72 miles, give or take a few. Average speed is about 30 miles. Tony's chart says I should be getting about 100 miles. I haven't run the car to turtle, but the difference seems too large. Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is my battery seriously degraded?

I've noticed that this total of 72 miles is more or less constant - from the time I start the trip to times when I've driven over 60 miles.

Anybody else have a similar experience?

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Range Chart

Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:05 pm

msandeep wrote:Long time lurker, posting for first time. First off, I'd like to mention that this is a fantastic forum. It's always good to hear about experiences of other leaf drivers. Some day there will be a cheap 300 mile battery and all this will be irrelevant, but till then..

I compared my mileage to Tony's chart. The numbers don't even come close. My Leaf has about 10K miles. I charge to 80% everyday and my round trip commute is about 50 miles. At the end of the day, the GOM shows about 22 miles remaining, for an estimated total of 72 miles, give or take a few. Average speed is about 30 miles. Tony's chart says I should be getting about 100 miles. I haven't run the car to turtle, but the difference seems too large. Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is my battery seriously degraded?

I've noticed that this total of 72 miles is more or less constant - from the time I start the trip to times when I've driven over 60 miles.

Anybody else have a similar experience?


Note that the chart is based on a constant speed at x, not an average so if you are ever exceeding 30 mph or even stopping will bring that down. After a year and 10k miles you probably have some battery capacity loss which will also bring it down. Only charging to 80% is leaving ~15% capacity unused. You likely have some level of elevation differences which will bring it down. The use of GOM to determine how many miles is left will also leave some miles on the table as it is likely conservative. Add all those factors up and you are probably right where you should be.

NYLEAF
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:55 am
Delivery Date: 27 Jan 2012
Leaf Number: 17311
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Range Chart

Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:06 pm

msandeep wrote:Long time lurker, posting for first time. First off, I'd like to mention that this is a fantastic forum. It's always good to hear about experiences of other leaf drivers. Some day there will be a cheap 300 mile battery and all this will be irrelevant, but till then..

I compared my mileage to Tony's chart. The numbers don't even come close. My Leaf has about 10K miles. I charge to 80% everyday and my round trip commute is about 50 miles. At the end of the day, the GOM shows about 22 miles remaining, for an estimated total of 72 miles, give or take a few. Average speed is about 30 miles. Tony's chart says I should be getting about 100 miles. I haven't run the car to turtle, but the difference seems too large. Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is my battery seriously degraded?

I've noticed that this total of 72 miles is more or less constant - from the time I start the trip to times when I've driven over 60 miles.

Anybody else have a similar experience?


The problem is that you're using the GOM for something other than a random number generator. You can't add miles driven to the GOM to get total range.

Tony's chart does not use average speed, it uses constant speed. In the real world, no one drives at a perfectly constant speed, and most people don't drive on perfectly flat terrain, either. That's why you're seeing a discrepancy.
Former Ride: 2012 Leaf SL, Ocean Blue, Leased 1/27/2012, Returned 4/27/2015, 37.7k miles & 12/12 bars
Final LeafSpy readings: AHr 60.73, SOH 92%, Hx 90.90%, 250 Gids on full charge

Current Ride: 2012 Nissan Rogue SL AWD, Black

msandeep
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:16 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Oct 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Range Chart

Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:27 pm

The speed variation may explain some of the difference. I was using the 1 year/10K degraded battery chart so the battery degradation should've been factored in. Anyway, the reality is that trip planning is usually done using the GOM. So if my GOM shows 20 miles remaining, I wouldn't make a 30 mile trip irrespective of what the chart says. Heck, I wouldn't even make a 20 mile trip - I do like to keep a few buffer miles.

I wonder if it's possible to collect actual mileage data from MNL users and build a statistical model around it. What I want to know is what my range will look like after 50K or 60K miles.

QueenBee wrote:
Note that the chart is based on a constant speed at x, not an average so if you are ever exceeding 30 mph or even stopping will bring that down. After a year and 10k miles you probably have some battery capacity loss which will also bring it down. Only charging to 80% is leaving ~15% capacity unused. You likely have some level of elevation differences which will bring it down. The use of GOM to determine how many miles is left will also leave some miles on the table as it is likely conservative. Add all those factors up and you are probably right where you should be.

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TonyWilliams
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Location: San Diego
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Re: Range Chart

Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:10 am

NYLEAF wrote:Tony's chart does not use average speed, it uses constant speed. In the real world, no one drives at a perfectly constant speed, and most people don't drive on perfectly flat terrain, either. That's why you're seeing a discrepancy.


I regularly use "constant speed" when traveling. I just click on the cruise control down the freeway. It works really good.

Yes, as noted, the chart has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOM... that is why, in part, that the Range Chart even exists.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BrockWI
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Range Chart

Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:52 am

It would be difficult to make a chart for average speed, there are so many variables. For example you could be on a country winding road slowly accelerating from 20 to 40 with no braking with an average of 30 compared to running surface streets with traffic lights running from heavy breaking and acceleration to 45 mph with an average of 30. When our car was new I tried to watch the average speed and somehow compare it to miles / kwh and it was all over the place depending on where and how my wife drove.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Range Chart

Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:50 pm

BrockWI wrote:It would be difficult to make a chart for average speed, there are so many variables. For example you could be on a country winding road slowly accelerating from 20 to 40 with no braking with an average of 30 compared to running surface streets with traffic lights running from heavy breaking and acceleration to 45 mph with an average of 30. When our car was new I tried to watch the average speed and somehow compare it to miles / kwh and it was all over the place depending on where and how my wife drove.


We are well past that point in this forum's life where we just keep repeating things over and over. I know all these issues are covered in the thread. This is also covered in the chart where it clears notes "steady" speed, not average.

If I drove 93mph and then 1mph in equal time, my average is 47mph. I can tell you that the LEAF will drive much farther at 47mph steady (over 100 miles when new) and probably less than half that at the 47mph average I used above.

Since nobody knows the data used to derive your average, it wouldn't be possible to know the outcome. I wouldn't even want to try.
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JESLAtm, the premium 40 amp J1772 portable charging solution
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msandeep
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:16 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Oct 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Range Chart

Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:52 pm

BrockWI wrote:It would be difficult to make a chart for average speed, there are so many variables. For example you could be on a country winding road slowly accelerating from 20 to 40 with no braking with an average of 30 compared to running surface streets with traffic lights running from heavy breaking and acceleration to 45 mph with an average of 30. When our car was new I tried to watch the average speed and somehow compare it to miles / kwh and it was all over the place depending on where and how my wife drove.


My speed is mostly constant. Out of about 80 minute roundtrip drive, the maximum speed is 65 mph for about 10 mins at most. Remaining is mostly 25 to 30 mph. Typical Bay Area freeway speeds during commute hours in carpool lane.

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