Yogi62
Posts: 167
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Delivery Date: 13 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405771
Location: Boston

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Mon May 13, 2013 8:50 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:Wow, fantastic distance on a charge. What sort of speeds were you driving to keep the 6 Miles/Kwh? (I know what the chart says, but curious to see how real life situations map to it.)


The first 50 was about 27 MPH, from 25 to 45 on country roads. In the middle there was an hour of stop and go traffic. At the end when I was stretching it, 25 KPH (~15 MPH) Overall, about 19 MPH.

Click for images of the dash and ELM327 readings.

JimK
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:42 am
Delivery Date: 22 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1951

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:10 pm

I just lost my first battery bar at 22000 miles on my 2011 Leaf. I now use 9 to 10 bars to drive 35 miles and I have never had anywhere near the range Nissan publishes. The trip used to take 8 bars so I mostly charged to 80%, now I always get the LBW a few miles from home so I charge to 100%. None of the numbers add up for me. The car says I get 3.5 miles/kWh so 35 miles should only be 10kWh but it uses up 10 or 11 bars and only takes 3 to 4 hours to charge at 3.3kW. My Blink charger reports 13 to 15kWh to charge the 10 or 11 bars. Accounting for charging efficiency loss, this implies to me that the battery is less than 16kWh capacity, certainly not 24kWh. I just had the “battery usage report” done by Nissan and everything is five stars (good) but the report is totally useless in diagnosing battery capacity or cell condition. Is there anyone near Benicia or Richmond, Ca with the GID meter or Leaf battery app that could analyze my battery for me?

cwerdna
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Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:20 pm

JimK wrote: this implies to me that the battery is less than 16kWh capacity, certainly not 24kWh.

There are only ~21 kWh usable (accessible) on a new un-degraded battery.

Yes, many have stated the battery check report is useless.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:51 pm

JimK wrote:None of the numbers add up for me. The car says I get 3.5 miles/kWh so 35 miles should only be 10kWh but it uses up 10 or 11 bars and only takes 3 to 4 hours to charge at 3.3kW. My Blink charger reports 13 to 15kWh to charge the 10 or 11 bars. Accounting for charging efficiency loss, this implies to me that the battery is less than 16kWh capacity, certainly not 24kWh.
I see some minor discrepancies in the numbers you report, but nothing really major. Is that 3.5 m/kWh a long term average, or for recent driving? If it is long term, and you have been experiencing colder than usual weather recently (it would help if you provided some location information), your recent average may be somewhat lower than that.

So let's say your recent average is really 3.0 m/kWh, like mine has been (even though my overall average is about 4.0). That would give just under 12kWh used per day. This would agree nicely with what your Blink is reporting, since 240v charging efficiency is about 85%. 14kWh x .85 = 11.9kWh to the battery. Charging 12kWh at 3.3kW should take 3.6 hours, again agreeing with what you are seeing.

There seems to be general agreement that 2011 LEAFs (other than any early ones out there still running "old bars") have about 1½ "hidden bars" below the 12 visible ones. So if we divide your 10 or 11 bars by 13.5, we find that you are using roughly 75-80% of the usable portion of your battery. If you are using 12kWh, that makes your usable capacity 15-16kWh. As cwerdna said, you started out with about 21kWh usable and, unless you have had a recent software update, the first capacity bar seems to disappear at about a 20% loss. That would suggest you should be somewhere around 16.8kWh. That's off a bit from what I just calculated, but not all that much. All these numbers we are throwing around are approximations, including the 21kWh initially available. Some people seem to start with at least 22kWh, others may only get 20kWh initially. Perhaps you were one of the unlucky ones.

Bottom line: I think your numbers do add up, and I am sorry you are experiencing the loss, but battery life, for all types of rechargeable batteries, is limited.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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vrwl
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Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:28 am

JimK wrote:I just lost my first battery bar at 22000 miles on my 2011 Leaf. I now use 9 to 10 bars to drive 35 miles and I have never had anywhere near the range Nissan publishes. The trip used to take 8 bars so I mostly charged to 80%, now I always get the LBW a few miles from home so I charge to 100%. None of the numbers add up for me. The car says I get 3.5 miles/kWh so 35 miles should only be 10kWh but it uses up 10 or 11 bars and only takes 3 to 4 hours to charge at 3.3kW. My Blink charger reports 13 to 15kWh to charge the 10 or 11 bars. Accounting for charging efficiency loss, this implies to me that the battery is less than 16kWh capacity, certainly not 24kWh. I just had the “battery usage report” done by Nissan and everything is five stars (good) but the report is totally useless in diagnosing battery capacity or cell condition. Is there anyone near Benicia or Richmond, Ca with the GID meter or Leaf battery app that could analyze my battery for me?


Since you are probably using more than 50% of your charge per trip, it seems like it might be a good investment for you to purchase the Leaf Spy battery app so you can feel more confident about running your car down into the lower ranges of your battery capacity. If you don't have an Android phone, there are several prepaid phones that work well for this purpose and you don't have to pay a monthly connection fee. Just use the phone for the app. That's what I do. See wiki/index.php?title=Leaf_Battery_Application for more info about the couple of pieces of equipment you'd need for that.
Vicki
Get Your EV License Plate Frames at EVPlates.com
2011 Silver SL-Mfg 8/11-Purch 6/12
19630 miles/10 Bars/4.0kWh/mi
205 GID at 100%/51.37 Ahr/78% SOH/59.91% Hx

RottenMutt
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Leaf Number: 423504

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:31 pm

This is my first post. Last week I leased a 2013 Leaf S with the 6.6Kw charger option, with two miles on the clock, mfg date 11/13. Order a leafDD and a ClipperCreek HCS-40.

I checked my battery stats after trickle charging overnight.
GID 263
S 97.25
C 60.5177
H 92.87
Battery temp 32F

Am I really down seven percent on battery health? I don't seem to be off to a good start.
Comments please...
Eric in Fort Worth TX
2013 Leaf S, mfg date 11/13

stjohnh
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:27 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:39 pm

RottenMutt wrote:This is my first post. Last week I leased a 2013 Leaf S with the 6.6Kw charger option, with two miles on the clock, mfg date 11/13. Order a leafDD and a ClipperCreek HCS-40.

I checked my battery stats after trickle charging overnight.
GID 263
S 97.25
C 60.5177
H 92.87
Battery temp 32F

Am I really down seven percent on battery health? I don't seem to be off to a good start.
Comments please...
Eric in Fort Worth TX


Probably normal. Many normal 2013 leafs report lower numbers than older leafs. Do a range test.
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013, both battery capacity about 60.5 AHr. Both with normal range. No degradation after 2 years and 19,000 miles.

DougWantsALeaf
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Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Here is my post from another thread today:

Question for the board.

Do cold temps reduce the number of GIDs a car will charge? Charged to 100% overnight and gids on leaf spy showed 256 according to soc I might have a couple more gids that could charge, but that feels like a fair amount of loss for 9 months and 3500 miles.

Leaf spy pro is very fun
2013 SV Black
Miles: 17500
Average Carwings/Dash Efficiency: 4.5-6.5M/KWh (summer) ~2.8-3.9 winter
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Berlino
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Leaf Number: 412600
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Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:42 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:

Do cold temps reduce the number of GIDs a car will charge? Charged to 100% overnight


Usually, when I charge to 100% LEAF Spy reports 97.3% SOC.

However, occasionally when charging overnight in the cold the SOC% will be ~93 at the end, despite the LEAF's dash reporting 100%.
Ordered: 7/18/13 Delivered: 8/05/13
Red 2013 SL w/premium
EVSE Upgrade, LEAF Spy Pro
Michelin X-Ice Xi3 FIVE months per year.
--------------------------------------
Silver S85.
Selected from inventory w ~500 miles: 3/28/14
Delivered: 3/31/14

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TonyWilliams
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Contact: Website

Re: How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:38 am

stjohnh wrote:
RottenMutt wrote:This is my first post. Last week I leased a 2013 Leaf S with the 6.6Kw charger option, with two miles on the clock, mfg date 11/13. Order a leafDD and a ClipperCreek HCS-40.

I checked my battery stats after trickle charging overnight.
GID 263
S 97.25
C 60.5177
H 92.87
Battery temp 32F

Am I really down seven percent on battery health? I don't seem to be off to a good start.
Comments please...
Eric in Fort Worth TX


Probably normal. Many normal 2013 leafs report lower numbers than older leafs. Do a range test.


The battery is fine. Not perfect, but fine for a battery built in Smyrna, Tennessee and not Japan. We really don't know what H is yet.

When it warms up that battery and you've driven it a bit, post your data again for a full charge.

Read this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=340972#p340972

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