WetEV
Posts: 2311
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:11 am

There are good reasons to suspect that a 60kWh Leaf is due out in 2019. So for current owners of a Leaf please, what things do YOU need to see to make you buy a new Leaf?

My needs:

1) A secure way of knowing remaining battery capacity including history that is easy to access.
Secure, meaning can't be reset by a used car dealer or anyone else. A history makes events like a new battery install transparent to the potential buyer of a car. Must be accessible from the center console without special tools or software at minimum.

If I want to buy or sell an electric car, I need to know what the best estimate of the battery capacity is. Sure, I know that all measurements are not exact, so having either a stated accuracy (56 kWh plus or minus 2 kWh) or a minimum estimate (54 kWh, maybe more, but not less) is acceptable.

If I'm buying a car, I need to know what I'm buying. If I'm selling a car, I'll get a better price if the buyer can trust what I'm selling. A large fraction of the value of a EV is the battery pack condition. (23% of a new Bolt?)


2) Hilltop charge mode. Charge to 80% Or 85% Or even 90%. Or even better, give me multiple steps.

I want regeneration when I leave home. i live at the top of a hill.
On the rare days that I push range I'd like to charge to full. Make it easy to over-ride.


3) More leg room.
The center console intrudes into where my right leg would like to be. Please make it narrower.


4) A real battery temperature readout in degrees C and F. Sure, the TMS should be taking most of the temperature worries away. I'd like to know the actual battery temperature when driving up and down steep mountain roads, on long trips with multiple DCQC sessions, etc.

Ideally this should be a driver display, but I'd accept a center console screen with this and other "engineering details".


My wants:

1) 19.2kW L2 charging. Or close to it. Most useful out in the wilds beyond DCQC. If I stop in a campground and get a 50 Amp plug, I'd like to use the 40 Amps that I can draw steady state from this plug. When I stop at an 80 Amp J1772, I'd like to draw 80 Amps.

2) Socialize the car. Provide a way to record trips similar to LEAFspy. And a way to display somewhat like http://www.leaflogger.com/

Perhaps just a bluetooth to cellphone link with an open API for third parties to write cellphone apps. Or perhaps using the car's cellphone link. Or even something else. Technology matters less than ease of use.

I like the ability to show someone my trips, where, when, battery charge level, outside temperature, battery temperature, ... Think of it as a social link to the car, making the car worth more to the owner, and more attractive to non-owners. Allow me to automatically fuzz out exactly where my home is, and other points where the trips start and/or end, for security and safety.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

jjeff
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:01 am

1. I agree, that would be nice, the car knows it, just let the average(or technical) person have access to displaying it :)
2. Agree, or just make it like Tesla has, where you can specify any SOC you want to stop at :idea:
3. While I agree and detest vehicles with a large console(looking at you Bolt and Volt :x ) I've not really had a problem with my older Leafs. In fact leg room was one of the selling points compared to other vehicles I looked at, still I wouldn't mind more, my favorite is something like a Nissan NV-200, I'd love to get the NV-200e here, and with a large battery pack :)
4. It would be nice, still if you have LeafSpy that does give you not only one temp but several temps of the battery, but it would be nice to have that built in.
5. Totally agree on this, I have a 50(40a cont) circuit at home but am limited to 27.5a with my current Leaf :( Adding to this, I'd also like the option to charge with a 3-phase 277/480v source used in commercial buildings, again like the stopping at a particular SOC% I believe only Tesla offers 277v charging.

Of your list my biggest want would be faster L2 charging, stopping at a particular SOC would be nice too although since both my Leafs allow me to stop at 80% I've been OK with that and haven't had to live without that feature like newer Leaf buyers.
I'd also not want the leg room to be any less, more better but any less and I'd be looking at a different vehicle.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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Nubo
Posts: 4876
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:24 am

To borrow from James Carville,
It's the battery, stupid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_th ... my,_stupid

lest I offend anyone, this is directed towards Nissan :)
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

goldbrick
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:28 am

I'm not in the market for a new car since my 2017 Leaf should do everything I need it to indefinately. BUT, one thing I wish Nissan would offer is to make the heat-pump heating system an option for any trim level. I have an 2017 S and on the few days I need to use the cabin heat, I just cringe to think of how silly it is to use that much energy to just heat the cabin when a heat pump could do the same job with much less consumption.

SageBrush
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:47 pm

I would never buy a new EV from Nissan based on their corporate history and the LEAF but for EVs in general I start with this:

Will the battery retain at least 80%, preferably 90% of new capacity for 10 years ? If no, then everything else is besides the point.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2311
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:39 am

SageBrush wrote:I would never buy a new EV from Nissan based on their corporate history and the LEAF but for EVs in general I start with this:

Will the battery retain at least 80%, preferably 90% of new capacity for 10 years ? If no, then everything else is besides the point.


If this was true in Phoenix AZ, I could expect 80% in 40 years. Assuming that both the car and I live that long, of course. And I'm still able to drive. :lol:
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

jake14mw
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:17 pm

SageBrush wrote:...

Will the battery retain at least 80%, preferably 90% of new capacity for 10 years ? If no, then everything else is besides the point.


I agree. This is my main question. Having the battery not degrade is more important to me than longer range. Other things:

    Automatic braking
    Lights on more buttons so you can see them at night. Door locks!
    Ability to set the % to stop the charge at
    An app that works reliably
    Faster Level 2 charging would be great

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IssacZachary
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Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:05 am

A better non-degrading battery. One that lasts at least 10 years or 100,000 miles, if not double that. The battery should not need to be replaced more than once in the lifetime of the car. Older cars needed a new engine about every 100,000 miles, so for now that's all I can expect from the battery since it is also a new technology. I don't care if it has a thermal management system or not, just as long as the battery lasts. Either that or guarantee the battery for 20 years or 200,000 miles, for the lifetime of the car. An 8 or 10 year guarantee is worthless if after that the car is in good shape but now whoever has the car has to deal with a bad battery.

And by "degrading" I mean to 70% of original capacity. I personally don't expect a battery to keep 100% for several decades to come, although that would be nice. But with that, give the car some real range. It looks like States like here in Colorado are shooting for 70 miles or less between charging stations. The car needs to go more than twice that even with a degraded battery so that it can make it in poor weather or do a bit of sight seeing. So give it at least a 200 mile range at the beginning. Either that or don't let the battery degrade below 140 miles ever, even if that means keeping the battery health up to 80% or 90% or even 100% for those 10 or more years.

And give us more battery options. For those that want just a 140 mile minimum, give them that. For those that want a 210 minimum after 10 years of degradation, give them that. Maybe even an "S" option with less than the 140 mile minimum for those frugal minded.

And give it the ability to charge to whatever level the owner wants, 70%, 80%, 90%, etc.

And make it more aerodynamic. Personally I don't care if the car looks weird. Just make that CR lower.

Also give us a solar option for charging the traction battery. I don't care if I only get 500W. That's better than the 1/2W the little 12V solar panel does.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

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EVDRIVER
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Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:14 am

[quote=
Also give us a solar option for charging the traction battery. I don't care if I only get 500W. That's better than the 1/2W the little 12V solar panel does.[/quote]


A solar option would have negligible value and a poor cost/benefit ratio. Charging at 500W would be like 100W to the battery if you were lucky. On a bright sunny day your would get a couple miles after overhead, sun factor, conversion waste, etc. Anyone that wants a batter that does not degrade should consider a Tesla, there are many with 100K miles and little degradation.

WetEV
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Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:42 am

EVDRIVER wrote: Anyone that wants a batter that does not degrade should consider a Tesla, there are many with 100K miles and little degradation.


Yes, just as there are many Leafs with 25K miles and little degradation. The Tesla battery is 4 times the size. The same number of battery cycles will take a $100,000 T esla M odle S more miles than a $25k Leaf. After tax credits, of course. Yes, the T esla S also is a faster, larger car, and has other things you might or might not want. Like high repair costs. Yes, the Leaf is a better deal in cool places where 90k miles before the first bar loss has been observed than in hot places with faster loss. The M odel 3 and Leaf 2.0 are unknown until we have a year or two to see how they are doing.

Maybe the right metric might be cost per mile, rather than just miles. Unless 0-60 time is your key goal.

I'd like a lower cost per mile. I don't care if this means a battery that needs to be replaced every 60k miles or 600k miles. I'm not interested in driving across the USA.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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