minispeed
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Location: Ancaster, ON

Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:50 pm

nerys wrote:What about the board? Is it wires where we might be able to simply swap the wires so front becomes drive electrically? Or is it an integrated board at the shifter? (Much harder to mess with)

Btw that away from the norma car are those drive selector buttons in the wheel hub? If so that is pure awesome!

I love weird funky cars. The weirder the better.


Yes those are gear buttons on the wheel, it's a Ford Edsel. The buttons were suppose to be something that people would love as it would make it

From wikipedia....

Image

"Edsel's marketing department promoted the Teletouch as a logical progression in the process of making the steering wheel the central command center for controlling cars.....

Eventually, all push-button transmission selectors became a safety issue due to lack of industry-wide standardization."


Personally I find the leaf shifter to be intuitive. I want to pull myself forward so I pull the shifter. I want to push myself back so I push the shifter. If it were the other way around I would probably hate it as much as you guys say you hate it now. Nissan had to pick and choose who they wanted to piss off, you or me?
2015 White SV, after one month 292 GIDS
Best 1 charge drive, 229km (143miles)

Zurc
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:34 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 336692
Location: KItchener, Ontario.

Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:00 pm

The only way to be sure Minispeed, is to go in with a tool kit and go nuts.
Remove the top and sides and maybe the seat too for accessibility.
There are 3 small gage wires that climb the shifter assembly and go into the shifter knob.
There is a wire bundle that comes from the rear (or goes to the rear) under the bottom part of the assembly.
The only way to tell is to lift the assembly out and that will require removing the two rear bolts and whatever is on the front end.
To accomplish the bolts on the front side will require removing at least one side panel.
IT might be simple or it might be an hours job for a contortionist.
IF I feel so inclined, I might tackle it this weekend just for the hell of it.
It looks like the only Board per se, is the indicator lights board. There could be something underneath though.
I have a suspicion that the actual switch might be a position sensitive switch in the shifter knob. The rest is for mechanical positioning.
Just a guess though.

Zurc.
2014 Red Leaf
2007 White Land Rover LR3
2000 Blue Excursion w/7.3L diesel.

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ttweed
Posts: 1089
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Leaf Number: 1317
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Contact: Website

Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:57 am

MikeinDenver wrote:Who still alive really drives a 3 speed floor shift?

My neighbor does, as do many owners of vintage '1930-50s pickups and hotrods that are still on the road. They may be obsolete, but they are not non-existent, and the fact that they exist refutes your blanket assertion that "up" in a manual shifter always means "drive."
Those sequentials are not manuals.

They most certainly are manuals. They utilize a manual clutch, and they do not change gears unless the shift lever is actuated--there is nothing "automatic" about them. Perhaps you are confusing a sequential transmission with a dual-clutch semi-automatic, such as the Porsche PDK or VW DSG, which share the attribute of not being able to "skip" gears when shifting. True sequential transmissions are utilized mostly in high-performance/race cars and custom street cars powered by motorcycle drivetrains, so they are not commonly seen in production vehicles, but they do exist and also contradict your blanket statement about shifting direction and car movement.

Also comparing the LEAF shifter to a standard PRND automatic is silly because they are nothing alike.
They are not the same thing, but they are indeed alike in the particular "directional" respect that is being discussed: the Leaf shares the "RND" configuration exactly with a console-mounted conventional automatic shifter, with R requiring a forward shift and D requiring a backward one. That makes the comparison completely relevant.

I was just making the statement that it is not necessarily intuitive.
That is true, but one person's "intuitive" is another person's "confounding," and you admit as much by including the weasel-word "necessarily" in your statement. It is a common trait to conflate personal preference with universal truth, but in reality, people are different--some are right-handed, some are left, some are ambidextrous. If the Leaf shifter is so abrasive to someone's sensibility that they are forced to modify the car and reverse it, so be it. It's a free world and if you own something, you should be able to change it to meet your needs better. If you are leasing, or the car is still under warranty, and the mod is not easily reversible, I would think carefully about the ramifications of such mods.

My point was that I do not see this issue as anything but a simple adaptation for the driver. I have probably owned and driven hundreds of different vehicles in my life, equipped with every type of manual transmission (including sequentials in both street and race cars), automatics (torque converter type as well as dual-clutch semi-automatics), CVTs, and now the single-speed Leaf. I have my preferences, which may be different than others, but I recognize that my task as a driver is to be able to adapt to whatever controls the car presents. I have never found this dangerous or even difficult to the point of frustration, as some here have expressed, and adaptation to the Leaf was no different for me than any other car I have driven, and has never caused me a moment's concern. It was definitely easier than the '57 Plymouth push-button automatic I had at one time.
Image

YMMV,
TT
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

MikeinDenver
Posts: 329
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Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:20 am

ttweed wrote:
MikeinDenver wrote:Who still alive really drives a 3 speed floor shift?

My neighbor does, as do many owners of vintage '1930-50s pickups and hotrods that are still on the road. They may be obsolete, but they are not non-existent, and the fact that they exist refutes your blanket assertion that "up" in a manual shifter always means "drive."
Those sequentials are not manuals.

They most certainly are manuals. They utilize a manual clutch, and they do not change gears unless the shift lever is actuated--there is nothing "automatic" about them. Perhaps you are confusing a sequential transmission with a dual-clutch semi-automatic, such as the Porsche PDK or VW DSG, which share the attribute of not being able to "skip" gears when shifting. True sequential transmissions are utilized mostly in high-performance/race cars and custom street cars powered by motorcycle drivetrains, so they are not commonly seen in production vehicles, but they do exist and also contradict your blanket statement about shifting direction and car movement.

Also comparing the LEAF shifter to a standard PRND automatic is silly because they are nothing alike.
They are not the same thing, but they are indeed alike in the particular "directional" respect that is being discussed: the Leaf shares the "RND" configuration exactly with a console-mounted conventional automatic shifter, with R requiring a forward shift and D requiring a backward one. That makes the comparison completely relevant.

I was just making the statement that it is not necessarily intuitive.
That is true, but one person's "intuitive" is another person's "confounding," and you admit as much by including the weasel-word "necessarily" in your statement. It is a common trait to conflate personal preference with universal truth, but in reality, people are different--some are right-handed, some are left, some are ambidextrous. If the Leaf shifter is so abrasive to someone's sensibility that they are forced to modify the car and reverse it, so be it. It's a free world and if you own something, you should be able to change it to meet your needs better. If you are leasing, or the car is still under warranty, and the mod is not easily reversible, I would think carefully about the ramifications of such mods.

My point was that I do not see this issue as anything but a simple adaptation for the driver. I have probably owned and driven hundreds of different vehicles in my life, equipped with every type of manual transmission (including sequentials in both street and race cars), automatics (torque converter type as well as dual-clutch semi-automatics), CVTs, and now the single-speed Leaf. I have my preferences, which may be different than others, but I recognize that my task as a driver is to be able to adapt to whatever controls the car presents. I have never found this dangerous or even difficult to the point of frustration, as some here have expressed, and adaptation to the Leaf was no different for me than any other car I have driven, and has never caused me a moment's concern. It was definitely easier than the '57 Plymouth push-button automatic I had at one time.
Image

YMMV,
TT



A sequential does not have a third pedal. So it is not the same. As for the comparison of a standard PRND no it is not the same. You go one direction for everything, back or down. Going from a dead stop it is forward for R and back for D. Not at all the same.
2013 SL

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ttweed
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Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:02 am

MikeinDenver wrote:A sequential does not have a third pedal. So it is not the same.
You obviously do not know what you are talking about, so I am through arguing with you. Do some research on the subject. I have owned and driven cars with sequential trans. and third pedal.
Going from a dead stop it is forward for R and back for D.

I think you just proved my point.
Over and out,
TT
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

nerys
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:11 pm
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Leaf Number: 020441

Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:44 pm

Going from a dead stop it is forward for R and back for D.

I think you just proved my point.
Over and out,
TT

it is not that easy TT. a little help is needed here as he might not realize what your saying.

for the purposes of electric think of the neutral drive stick position as "neutral" ten R is forward D is backwards like RND

the CAR is not in neutral but the "drive stick" is in neutral. and in fact if you slide the stick left (like pulling on the shifter or pushing the button on the shifter) the car will in fact goto NEUTRAL so that is the neutral position.

not quite the same thing but the intention in the design was clearly influenced by this.
2012 SV 4802miles. 1month 2400 miles. 9 weeks 5000 miles. 6 months 13,300 miles. 4/18 15,000 miles.

XeonPony
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Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:27 pm

To add to ramifications end of things if you mod the shifter kiss good by any and all insurance coverage as you have violated the safety cert of the car, so you will not be covered by Nissan nor insurance company from any damage to or caused by your car by doing such a modification violating the cars design standard.

As some one who has driven large trucks my hardest thing to adapt to is not using the wiper control to shift! Mind you I have very clean windows!

Took me all of 5 seconds to get the shifting figured out, and shifting from D to B and back is dead easy for the level of "engine" breaking that I want.
2013 SV Leaf, Level 2 charger, so far all works great! 130Km daily, 100% charge at night on 240 then trickle charge for 8H durring the day on 120v.

Level 2 charge starts at 130am environmental starts at 6am to 25c for a toasty warm defrosted car!

nerys
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Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:51 pm

you are flat out incorrect about voiding your insurance or warranty for safety cert 100% incorrect
2012 SV 4802miles. 1month 2400 miles. 9 weeks 5000 miles. 6 months 13,300 miles. 4/18 15,000 miles.

Zurc
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:34 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 336692
Location: KItchener, Ontario.

Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:34 am

Minispeed makes a good point about Nissan's decision on the shifter.
Perhaps the future solution is to set the shifter up so that the driver can set the shifter to their own preference.

Try as I might, I still put the shifter in the wrong position occasionally.
I have to make it a point to be very careful about what position I've put it into before I give it the pedal.

This is something I'll be paying a bit more attention to when I select my next car.

Zurc.
2014 Red Leaf
2007 White Land Rover LR3
2000 Blue Excursion w/7.3L diesel.

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TomT
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Re: Swop Reverse and Drive Positions on the Stick Shift

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:43 am

Talk about a nightmare if someone unfamiliar with your car, like a friend, valet or car wash attendant, drives it!

Zurc wrote:Perhaps the future solution is to set the shifter up so that the driver can set the shifter to their own preference.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

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