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IssacZachary
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Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:49 am

Might I add that while the Nissan is cheaper up front than the Tesla, it still isn't an economy car. It takes a lot of things to make a good selling car.

Look at the Ford Model T. It was much cheaper than competitors (as much as one tenth the price). It had greater range and better efficiency (than steam) at that time.

Then the Volkswagen Type 1, the worlds most sold car on a single platform. Price was "the price of a used car." Yet it needed less maintenance and was more reliable than other cars at the time it launched. It also got stellar fuel mileage for it's era.

Then came the Toyota Camry, the worlds most sold car on various platforms. Though not the cheapest car, it is very cheap. Hailed as one of the most reliable cars in the world to this very day.

Those are qualities I want in an EV, be it a Leaf, Model 3, Bolt or whatever. Reliability, longevity and economy. Not lots of money so I can pay more money in the future.

What can I say! I'm frugal!
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13270
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:04 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
WetEV wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
My comment is about degradation, a LEAF can have the same pack cooling as a Tesla, or other lower priced EV. The car does not have to have a price of $100k or a 0-60 time that is faster.


Sure, a $100k T esla's battery will outlast a $30k Leaf's battery.

But will the T esla's battery outlast the same $100k spend one a Leaf car and 30+ replacement battery packs? :lol:

Not to mention the extra electric power cost, extra repair cost and such for the T esla.


The cost of the car has nothing to do with the pack longevity the size, cooling and chemistry does. You can cool the LEAF pack and it will last longer and it won't require buying a $100K car. The Model 3 uses the same pack tech and it is not $100K, etc, etc.


Bullsh**
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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EVDRIVER
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:53 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
WetEV wrote:
Sure, a $100k T esla's battery will outlast a $30k Leaf's battery.

But will the T esla's battery outlast the same $100k spend one a Leaf car and 30+ replacement battery packs? :lol:

Not to mention the extra electric power cost, extra repair cost and such for the T esla.


The cost of the car has nothing to do with the pack longevity the size, cooling and chemistry does. You can cool the LEAF pack and it will last longer and it won't require buying a $100K car. The Model 3 uses the same pack tech and it is not $100K, etc, etc.


Bullsh**



So it cost $70K more to put a cooled pack in a LEAF? That's a straw man argument. Or the LEAF would need to cost $100K to have a proper pack? A model 3 that is not $100K has the same LEAF pack issues? That is BS. I also like how people talk about extra repair costs on Tesla, I have spent zero on maintenance and repairs which was not the case on my LEAF. Seems other car makers can make TMS systems in an EV and it is not $100K.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:18 am

Since there is a lot of comparison between LEAF and Tesla in this thread, I have a question to ask: I park my LEAF at my office or the airport for extended time with no place to plug in. The LEAF keeps its 12-volt battery charged and uses no energy for traction battery cooling so I return to a car that is ready to drive and has essentially the same SOC as when it was parked 2 or 3 weeks before. How would a Tesla (or any other EV with active battery cooling) handle being parked without being plugged in for 2 or 3 weeks in summer in Phoenix?

What I want in LEAF 3.0:
1. Secure battery capacity display (as noted by Wet EV).
2. Better outside mirrors.
3. Features I miss that 2011 had: Adjustable headlights, electric parking brake actuator, light-colored interior on SL, and better accelerator response of motor/,inverter/controller system.
4. Features I like on 2015: Heated steering wheel (temperature control improvements needed), heaters in all seats, heat pump, and Bose sound system.
Last edited by GerryAZ on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:26 am

IssacZachary wrote:Might I add that while the Nissan is cheaper up front than the Tesla

That is debatable

The cheapest LEAF is a few thousands less than the cheapest Model 3 but the cars are far from equivalent. The LEAF SV is close to a Tesla Model 3 SR in price and offers much less value.

Then of course the LEAF battery pack degradation comes into play. That makes the LEAF one of the most expensive EVs available, and much more expensive than any Tesla Model 3.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2346
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:58 am

SageBrush wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:Might I add that while the Nissan is cheaper up front than the Tesla

That is debatable

The cheapest LEAF is a few thousands less than the cheapest Model 3


The cheapest Leaf you can buy today is the S, MSRP $29,990. Nissan has often discounted prices by thousands of dollars.

The cheapest M odel 3 you can buy today is $44,000

Difference is $14k plus likely Nissan discounts.


SageBrush wrote:Then of course the LEAF battery pack degradation comes into play. That makes the LEAF one of the most expensive EVs available, and much more expensive than any Tesla Model 3.


I've got 4 years, 40k plus miles, and might be 10% down in capacity. At that rate, I might well get to 12 years and 120k plus miles before the battery is down to 70%. I might well continue to drive it past that point. But if I didn't, and I bank the $14,000 extra that a Tesla M odel S would cost, I could replace the battery at least two times, perhaps three including interest. That would get me to 36 years and 360k miles.

Of course, the cars are not equivalent. The Tesla is intending for road trips, etc. The Leaf is a commuter car. Most driving is commuting. If you need a car for a road trip across the USA, the Tesla is a better choice. If you need a car for commuting, the Leaf is a better choice. What are your needs? What are your wants?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

WetEV
Posts: 2346
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:01 am

EVDRIVER wrote:Seems other car makers can make TMS systems in an EV and it is not $100K.


Which did not seem to fix the battery life issues on some of these other cars.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: What I want in a Leaf 3.0

Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:06 am

I went to the Nissan site and priced out a LEAF SV with tech and weather package and floor mats. It came to $37k
It is NOT an inexpensive car, and as for value -- awful.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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