Finally did it - dumping the stock av/nav!.... kinda :)

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defiancecp

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
367
Location
Little Rock
Well, got tired of line level conversion and its inherent nastiness, android's crappy default bluetooth stack, a very sub-par output channel on the stock unit, and just generally craptastic UI - not to mention the farking "OK" message - and decided, by god, I'm darned well getting rid of that thing one way or another!!

So I took stock of what was lost, what was critical/noncritical, looked at the list and frowned. That was probably a year ago or more.

BTW, here's that list, as far as I know it (and to test it I actually just disconnected everything and drove around for a while--

-audio (of course :) )
-gps/nav (ditto)
-bluetooth phone/microphone (ditto)
-backup camera (display for the camera)
-climate controls (only passively displays selections - most critically temperature and mode)
-cc timers (the av/nav doesn't actually *function* as the timers, but with it removed all timers are lost/turned off after second startup; I believe the av-nav unit sends selections over CAN bus at bootup)
-charging timers (exactly the same as cc timers, except that with timers turned off charging just goes to 100% any time it's plugged in)
-energy display (passive display of consumption)
-bcm (lights/locks/etc) behavior selections (these selections do not appear to be lost when the unit is disconnected, they simply stay at whatever selections were last made)
-aux in
-usb in
-panel button interface
-steering wheel button interface


Couple weeks ago I decided enough REALLY WAS enough and took another look at that list. The things I kept coming back to were the timers - charging and climate control. Everything else I could do without, but darnit I do NOT want to give up pre-heating and charge to 100% all the time!

So I went to the car and started digging through it and figured out something. While it looks like it's pretty packed because of all the wiring, the spot underneath the radio is actually pretty darned cavernous! And most of those cables go to the av/nav, meaning if it's moved down, the wires are moved down as well... PLUS - a lot of them (like radio/cell/gps antena, USB, etc) can simply by disconnected and moved aside. In fact, of the 9 harnesses on the back of the radio, there are actually only 2 needed: the normal nissan 20-pin radio harness and the main 40-pin harness. The other 7 are auxiliary functions that, if Nav is not actively being used, you just don't need connected. So those can be disconnected and moved out of the way entirely. There was one thin plastic brace that I needed to cut out of the way for clearance, I had to slightly trim the spots where the panel underneath the console (with the power connector) met the main dash panel, and I had to disconnect the power connector for clearance (In the 18 months+ I've used the car I've never used that anyway, everything I use charges off USB).

With all that done, I was able to move the stock radio down and slightly right from its stock location and fit entirely underneath the radio location/behind the buttons! Like so:
16070462_large.jpg

with panel back on:
16070461_large.jpg


So with that all done I was able to complete my car-PC:
16070460_large.jpg

16070459_large.jpg

16070458_large.jpg


The PC is a Sapphire pure white fusion motherboard with a dual core e350 processor, 4gb ram, 120gb ssd, m3-atx miniature PSU, joycon steering wheel button interface, generic wifi & bluetooth dongles, Mo-co-so mini touch 700 touch screen (soon to be with Motor City Tech capacitive touch panel; right now it's resistive). Software is windows 7, Centrafuse, Bluesoleil, Navigator 12 GPS - For audio processing I'm using VSTHost to allow for VST Plugin usage (as much as I want as long as I've got the processor power). Currently the plugins I've got configured serve as a 3-way crossover (400hz+ to mids/highs, 80-400hz to midbass, 80hz down to subs) and a bandpass rear channel crossover (120-5k hz), parametric EQ (infinite band; add bands of adjustment as needed) for each channel, and time alignment for each individual channel (aligned front channel, delayed rear). All those active still leave me with under 30% cpu utilization most of the time while playing music, so I could still go further without making anything sluggish or causing audio droput. And, even better, it all fits in the bybyte double din frame, which fits in the leaf dash with very little modification (had to alter the top rear of the case just a little as shown in the pics).

And viola, it fit! (I actually had to trim the LCD panel just a bit with the dremel, and some non-visible bits on the back side of the stock trim panel, but all took <15 minutes):

16070464_large.jpg


So for functionality, here's where I stand right now, using the list above of stock functions:

-audio: done, and dramatically better!!!

-gps/nav: done, working - lots of ways to approach this; USB GPS dongles, try to find an old GPS dongle that accepts internal antennas and connect to stock antenna, etc - but I finally decided to just use my cell GPS; the computer autoconnects to the phone via bluetooth, and an app provides GPS data over bluetooth as a virtual com port. Works surprisingly well, and $0 investment. Can always add a $30 USB gps later if needed.)

-bluetooth phone/microphone: Using Centrafuse & Bluesoleil software it autoconnects to the phone and works pretty much like stock. The stock microphone is actually pretty good, so I connected it to the computer microphone input and it serves the same purpose in the new system that it did in the old.

-backup camera: Monitor has auto switching to the composite video input, I just took the stock composite video backup camera lead, used a relay to turn it on & off with reverse signal, and sent it to the monitor. Works like a charm :)

-aux in: Works perfectly :)

-usb in: Works perfectly :)

-steering wheel button interface: I'm using a joycon interface for these and can see it in software but haven't yet finished configuring the software. Should work perfectly very soon.

-climate controls: Buttons work fine, but nothing displays (YET!). Right now I'm just using the fact that I know it's 60-90 range to adjust as needed (turn it all the way up and back down to where I need it, or vice versa in summer). The rest is not an issue, but I look forward to getting that temp display back!! (need to read that data from CAN and write centrafuse plugin to display it - or something like that)

-cc timers: Work fine off stock system, but inconvenient to change ... Not as inconvenient as you'd think, though; removing the stock trim panel takes about 2 minutes :) Look forward to figuring out CAN interface- eventually might be able to completely remove stock unit. Haven't changed these in MONTHS though, so not in a big hurry.

-charging timers: Work fine off stock system, but inconvenient to change ... Not as inconvenient as you'd think, though; removing the stock trim panel takes about 2 minutes :) Look forward to figuring out CAN interface- eventually might be able to completely remove stock unit. Haven't changed these in MONTHS though, so not in a big hurry.

-energy display: Nothing (yet)- more CAN interpretation, but can use the bubbles... another "would be nice" thing :)

-bcm (lights/locks/etc) behavior selections: I set these once when I got the car and haven't touched them since. Suppose I could figure out the can messaging, but I probably won't bother even after I pull the stock unit :)

-panel button interface: Panel buttons apparently have their own special CAN bus. Grand.

Additionally, the options that I can add are boundless. I've already set it up to tether from my phone automatically and installed a pandora app, so no more bluetooth audio issues (android's bluetooth audio implementation SUCKS), and full screen interface - Can do the same with spotify, orb, or whatever... Just about anything there's a PC app for I can do, though obviously things with centrafuse plugins work a lot better (the smaller buttons on standard PC apps can be difficult to target, especially when driving) - but even standard PC apps can often be skinned to work with the interface better.



I still have a lot of software config to go - Every once in a while I still find something I need to drop out to windows for, which obviously doesn't work well for a car. Plus everything related to bluetooth works great, but I have to manually activate the bluetooth PAN (tethering) every time I start it, which is a pain... Things like that I'm sure I can fix, just need to figure out how... But even as it is, I'm still VERY happy with the improvements I've already seen :D
 
Very cool.

For a reach touch screen UX, Win 8 pro might be a lot better. Though, you probably don't have all the needed apps in the "Modern UI" yet.
 
Oh - almost forgot carwings integration.... Mine actually stopped updating the statistics on the site way back in August of 2011, so I hadn't been using that, and I never renewed the subscription to be able to do the web/phone interface. So honestly I completely forgot about those. I believe those would go away with this setup, but since both have been inactive for me for quite some time anyway I can't really test.

Win8 looks extremely interesting. I have a buddy that got a win8 tablet and it is pretty interesting; I definitely think it could be made to work here. In my case I actually started on this pc almost a year ago, so I've already got the licensed copy of win7... Still have to buy my centrafuse license though (using trial right now), so might consider win8 instead... but I'm guessing it's still a little too new to have everything I'd need set up to work well in the tablet UI. I'd bet it will be near-perfect for this application in ~3-6 months, with the exception of bluetooth phone interface -- not a lot of demand to develop software to use a PC as a phone interface, so I'm guessing centrafuse will continue to have the best implementation there...
 
defiancecp said:
Oh - almost forgot carwings integration.... Mine actually stopped updating the statistics on the site way back in August of 2011, so I hadn't been using that, and I never renewed the subscription to be able to do the web/phone interface. So honestly I completely forgot about those. I believe those would go away with this setup, but since both have been inactive for me for quite some time anyway I can't really test.

Win8 looks extremely interesting. I have a buddy that got a win8 tablet and it is pretty interesting; I definitely think it could be made to work here. In my case I actually started on this pc almost a year ago, so I've already got the licensed copy of win7... Still have to buy my centrafuse license though (using trial right now), so might consider win8 instead... but I'm guessing it's still a little too new to have everything I'd need set up to work well in the tablet UI. I'd bet it will be near-perfect for this application in ~3-6 months, with the exception of bluetooth phone interface -- not a lot of demand to develop software to use a PC as a phone interface, so I'm guessing centrafuse will continue to have the best implementation there...

Win8 phones and tablets use blutooth and they usually have apps like Skype, so it shouldn't be an issue.
 
To clarify it's easy to bluetooth interface with a phone, but no PC software (other than Centrafuse on Bluesoleil's bluetooth stack) would act as a handsfree set for a bluetooth cell phone - it just wasn't commonly implemented. Looks like you're right though, bluetooth handsfree was added to windows 8's bluetooth stack - bout damn time ... I'll have to bum Raymond's tablet and try it out, see if they actually have good software implementation set up :)
 
Great read, and fantastic project. Hope you keep making progress because I'd like to do this myself some day.
 
defiancecp said:
Win8 looks extremely interesting. I have a buddy that got a win8 tablet and it is pretty interesting; I definitely think it could be made to work here. In my case I actually started on this pc almost a year ago, so I've already got the licensed copy of win7...

Win 8 upgrade is inexpensive.

Given the size of the screen, though (what is the resolution ?) - I wonder how it well it will work in practice. Otherwise I'm sure the UX will be a lot better with tiles and response to hand gestures. As long as you have Win 8 Apps for all the main functions, it should work well.
 
Actually yeah, that looks like the killer point here. With the 7" touch screens available, nearly all have a native res of 800x480. Metro UI apparently won't work at less than 1024x768. The screen actually will accept 1024x768, but it's scaled, and text becomes unreadable in some cases and things like that ... so win8 really wouldn't work well for this application unfortunately (at least, not as a UI). Still tempted to get it to try the bluetooth stack, though... Bluesoleil isn't playing well with hibernation. Not to mention all the talk about superfast boot times. Can't hurt to give it a try; I'll just make an image of my drive as it is first...
 
Any updates? did you ever figure out how to sniff out the climate controll status?

It would be greate to combine this project with "ELM327 Bluetooth OBDII adapter with Leaf"
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=278726" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Not really any updates - Job changes convinced me to move to Seattle, meaning I had to prep my house for sale, pretty much every spare minute for a couple months went into that ... then just as I was about to move, an electrical storm put a power surge into the leaf and it's been having intermittent troubles since (currently at Bellevue dealership looking at a possible VCM failure)...

I'm nearly settled in here, so once the car gets back I'll hopefully have time to get back to the project.

As a note, with the brake/nav bypass kits available, I think all this could be done with absolutely no interfacing factory wires. The first thing I'll probably try to do is remove the few places I had to tap factory wires and use a bp kit for those interactions instead -- then get a bluetooth can reader connected and see if I can put together a centrafuse plugin to show energy consumption & climate control data. Centrafuse does strange things with the bluetooth stack, though, so I'm not certain it'll work as easily as it should. We'll see.
 
would be great if you get it working ;)
One question. the rear view camera. after you changed from stock to a new screen, does the rear view camera work with the distance markers that turn with the steering wheel?
 
No - With the non-stock display, I get a good rear view image, but no display of turning guides.

I looked pretty hard for connectors for a while, and completely gave up, so I hold little hope for finding them outside of that bypass kit.

Meanwhile, got the car back :) Might try to get back into this project again this weekend, but I'm still unpacking at the moment! Plus, awesome new city, so much to do, and given how little of my time is actually spent in a car now, this is naturally pretty low priority...
 
defiancecp said:
No - With the non-stock display, I get a good rear view image, but no display of turning guides.

I looked pretty hard for connectors for a while, and completely gave up, so I hold little hope for finding them outside of that bypass kit.

Meanwhile, got the car back :) Might try to get back into this project again this weekend, but I'm still unpacking at the moment! Plus, awesome new city, so much to do, and given how little of my time is actually spent in a car now, this is naturally pretty low priority...


okey. looking at the servicemanual, I understand there is more to it. so the turning guides are calculated in the stock lcd display. I'm guessing the static guides are also added inside the av-box?
The AV control unit receives the steering signal from the steering sensor via CAN communication and draws
a possible route line according to the steering angle.
• When the possible route lines are displayed, the side distance guide lines are displayed translucently.
• The possible route lines are not displayed when the steering is in the neutral position.
• The possible route line can be displayed/not displayed by selecting “Other Settings” - “Camera from the setting
function”.

Perhaps one could borrow some code from this project to get it working:
http://openxcplatform.com/projects/rearview-camera.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
combined with what we know of canbus:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An7gtcYL2Oy0dGRaSWl6VTV2eXBQMy1ON2xZSzlMUXc#gid=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you have a link to the screen you bought?
when I search for it I do find some kits. Interesting if one puts a kit togheter with some lowcost,lowpowered arm device ;)
I'm looking at parrot screen at the moment for a possible replacement. however the android is v2 old, and there seems to be some issues at the moment.

Looking at the servicemanual on the tcu-unit. it looks like it's tied togheter to the av-unit. I did expect tcu(carwings) not working if one replaces the screen. however I'm a little curious on how the tcu-unit works. is it powered on all the time? I see in the servicemanual it is drawed up a cable from av-unit to tcu-unit marked usb-power. but I except the tcu-unit takes power from somewhere else where power is availeble all the time. am I right that the ev-bus is availble when the car is turned off? would be interesting to replace the tcu-unit with something else. perhaps arduino with canbus and gsm-module.
 
defiancecp said:
As a note, with the brake/nav bypass kits available, I think all this could be done with absolutely no interfacing factory wires. The first thing I'll probably try to do is remove the few places I had to tap factory wires and use a bp kit for those interactions instead -- then get a bluetooth can reader connected and see if I can put together a centrafuse plugin to show energy consumption & climate control data. Centrafuse does strange things with the bluetooth stack, though, so I'm not certain it'll work as easily as it should. We'll see.

I have started gathering info on the connectors used, to see if I can buy the female connectors somewhere.

terminal-overview2.png

terminal-overview_mark2.png

Connectors:
m83 - 20pin - steering switches and sound
m84 - 40pin - can bus, camera feed, mic, aux sound, park/reverse/speed -signal
m85 - 16pin - usb, u/d-voice
m86 - 4pin - usb
m306 - 2pin - gps antenna
m307 - 2pin - radio antenna
m312 - 1pin - satelite antenna

From the above overview, I will use m83, m84, m306, m307. I'm not sure what purpose m85,m86 is serving. Anybody knows? is m86 for the usb port right besides 12v socket?

M83-20pin:
[?] female and male - http://ae64.com/20-pin_breakout_harness.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[?] female - http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10658_Metra-70-7552.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
male - http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12746_Metra-71-7552.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[?] female - http://www.skyinternational.com.cn/show_content.php?id=753&bid=content" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

m84 - 40pin:
[?] http://chinaskye.en.hisupplier.com/product-829754-toyota-40pin-wire-harness.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[?] http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/636018154/automotive_40_pin_PCB_connector.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[?] http://swsct.sws.co.jp/components/en/housing.asp?number_s=60985585nh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[?] http://www.newunitedracetech.com/shop/sumitomo-nh-series-025064mm-40-position-male-housing-natural-p-9308.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

M86-4pin:
[pretty sure] female - http://axxessinterfaces.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76&products_id=193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

m306 - 2pin - gps antenna:
[?] http://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hirose-Connector/GT5-1S-HU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKj6%252b9IPYbQp1VAPpKjvRQmU=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

m307 - 2pin - radio antenna
[?] http://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hirose-Connector/GT13SH-1-1S-HU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKjqIiL9St1hdCnAdKt6mDeA%3d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still on the lookout for the rest of the connectors.
 
Dear defiancecp


Do you finished your leaf NAV head modification?

I also want bring out original NAV because I want to get freedom from nissan service centre and manage car myself like I want.
Im ready to purchase car-PC but i need smart programmer to make this PC compatible with leaf.
 
no updates? curious. how hard would it be to simply move the MFD "into" the stock location cavity 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch?

I am using a 7" tablet as my head unit now (love it) and want to try and make it look more factory (right now just sitting on top of the MFD)
 
Hey there! I was just reading your thread on removing your head unit in your LEAF and I wondered about the GOM.

I noticed when I removed the head unit it went to "---" did yours come back to life without any issues? or did you have program something for it?
 
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